Based on how often I’m asked, “Will the insert fit sleeved cards?”, I was under the assumption that the majority of gamers sleeve all cards in their games.
So I was shocked by the results of a recent poll I sent to Stonemaier Ambassadors. Granted, this is a small, niche sample size (hence the poll on today’s post), but it was still illuminating as to my perception vs reality.
That little blue sliver for “all” is 3.4%. That’s way lower than I’d previously assumed. Even when those results are combined with the “most” category, it’s only 17.3% of gamers who regularly sleeve cards. Compare that to 62.1% of people who hardly ever (or never) sleeve cards.
Do these results actually change anything about the way we design inserts? I don’t think so. I would, however, say that it shifts my priorities when considering insert design options. It seems that I should focus on optimizing for non-sleeved cards while making space (when possible) for sleevers.
For some inserts/boxes, adding a little cushion for sleeves isn’t a problem. But there are instances where an insert or tray is less effective (or even ineffective) because of sleeve accommodations. Perhaps more common is when a game features a lot of cards–at a certain point, due to the thickness that some sleeves add, you would need to significantly increase the size of the insert, tray, or even the box to fit those sleeved cards, increasing the price for everyone even though it’s only helping a small number of people.
I’d note that the priority changes a bit for any game that requires frequent shuffling (like a deckbuilder), just as the priority shifts the other way for a game in which the cards are never shuffled.
UPDATE: After collecting responses on the blog, I combined that data with the original ambassador results to get the following. Here you can see that among those who responded, frequent sleevers increased to 36% and people who rarely/never sleeve is now at 49%.
Again, though, this is a very small sample size, so if you’d consider clicking on the poll below, that would be a huge help to publishers! I’m also curious to hear the conclusions you draw about this data.
Also, to share my bias, I don’t sleeve the cards in any of my games. I really like the feel and smell of cardstock, especially cards with linen embossing. What do you like?
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139 Comments on “Do Only 3% of Gamers Sleeve All Cards?”
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Sleeves have downsides: expensive, insert storage, stacking and shuffling.
A game with quality cards can have me buy the game and sometimes not buy the game. Black borders drive me nuts.
I love Wingspan and it having cards of quality, good design and rules suitable enough to not require sleeves made is a good purchase, no sleeves.
Champions of Midgard design is not as good, their cards are of good quality but the expansions are terribly matched for most, no sleeves except for journey cards.
I love Ethnos but the card quality means I sleeved it, the cards stacks are not ridiculous, it is more expensive and doesn’t get played because of it.
Ark Nova’s card design is substandard to Wingspan, I need sleeves. It is not a good of a purchase as Wingspan, need to spend a stupid amount of money for sleeves. I could have bought 2 other quality games instead of Ark Nova.
Thanks for sharing! I actually really like the quality and feel of my Ark Nova cards–they’ve held up quite well over many plays.
Ethnos: cards stacks are ridiculously thick and sleeves make them hard to shuffle.
Ark nova cards are of average quality and 30-40 plays in our group would finish a set of cards.
With the price of games, I can’t understand why more people didn’t report sleeving. It’s a financial issue with my collection. We play through them a lot and every game that I have to replace is a new game that I can not buy…….
However, that being said, once you play with sleeved cards, shuffling is actually better with them than without and holding them is better than without…
We also use card shufflers in order to speed up replays….and they work great with sleeve kings 60 microns thickness. We have over 100 plays with our wingspan base deck…..and have added all expansions and with sleeves they all look the same.
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It really depends on how the cards feel when I get them out. I would never sleeve the lovely cards in Lords of Waterdeep because they feel great but others I sleeve right away for fear of damage
‘All’ is never going to be a big category, because there are games that are cheap, easy to replace, don’t require shuffling etc where sleeving would cost more than just buying a second copy of the game. It takes a special kind of dedication to sleeving to answer ‘all’. I don’t think it’s really relevant for game design whether people sleeve ‘all’ their games, it’s more relevant whether people intend to sleeve the game you’re designing.
While it might cost a little more wasted space if you have a larger than needed box, the absolute nightmare it is to have a box that is openly hostile to sleeving but otherwise well designed leaves a horrible taste, Parks is the worst offender that I found here, they designed a spectacular insert, but it, and the box are totally unusable the moment you sleeve anything, at which point people basically have to discard the whole box and insert to store the game sleeved.
Availability of spare cards etc is also a thing, if people can easily replace a few cards relatively cheaply, sleeving isn’t as big of a deal as when one card being damaged ruins a hundred dollar or more, no longer available internationally (or at all) game.
Very good point. I do sleeve all games, and while I used to be aggravated about a wonderfully designed base game vacuum formed insert that would not accommodate sleeves, I now just chuck it after boxing the game up the first time without thinking about it. But buying a big box collection (Everdell as an example) or a bid bid w/organizer that wouldn’t accommodate sleeves is a different story. I feel like those that would those investments are more inclined to want to protect their cards (ie make them last). But that is speculation, as I have no real data (only drawing from different BGG posts over time.
The only organizer that I have seen that I would not replace (have to say that I might be doing surgical replacement in some areas of the wingspan organizer – mainly designing a card market that will house all cards under and a combined resource holder for our 3D painted pieces) the Dune Imperium Upgrade Pack which has 3D pieces (injection mold which I painted) and holders for everything with lids and that will also accommodate the 3D sand worm that I printed from thingiverse. It is the best mass marker upgrade and organizer. Hats off to DWD. I do like Scythe LB, but it’s just a box, and I had to make an organizer for it and what a job that was……..but the game is certainly with it.
I sleeve all my games. Expensive or not – doesn’t matter.
I’m terrible at shuffling. Sleeves are the only way I can shuffle cards efficiently.
Question: How you guys shuffle without sleeves? Simply cut can’t really achieve the goal of randomization and I don’t want to shuffle these cards like I shuffle playing cards.
And I sleeve all of my games as a continued habit from playing mtg…
I shuffle cards like playing cards–that’s how we make them! :)
I think it depends on the game and the sleeves available.
I will sleeve games that have lots of cards in, however I have not been able to sleeve any of my stonemaier games except for red rising as all of the cards are not standard and its hard to get hold of sleeves, I would sleeve wingspan but again sleeves are hard to come by for the perfect fit.
If I look at my collection I would say over 80% of my games are sleeved, I’ve even sleeved my quacks of quendlinberg. I have just ordered a few thousand sleeves to sleeve Smashup.
I also think it depends on the games you play, some games don’t need to be sleeved or people say its just as cost effective to buy a new game. My friends copy of marvel legendary is just trashed from the amount of times he’s played it and its not sleeved and I feel dirty playing it.
For me it is game dependent, something like a deck builder where cards get shuffled a lot, I’m absolutely sleeving that to prevent damage, once I have played it and determined I am keeping it. On the other hand a game where you shuffle the deck once and create a draw pile is far less likely to be sleeved unless I happen to have enough extra sleeves hanging around (not especially common). How often they get played (especially compared to the cost of sleeving them) will determine if they get sleeved, so Wingspan is sleeved (because it is one of my wife’s favorite games & ranks highly for me) and DC Deck-Builder isn’t due to the cost and because it doesn’t get played frequently. Despite the cost Black Rose Wars (with all expansions and the Sator Box) is sleeved because it is one of our favorite games.
What sleeves do you use? I am thinking about getting the mayday chimera but still uncertain. Considering how many cards there are I want to get it right!
I prefer to sleeve my cards, especially in games where cards get shuffled. I live in a very dusty area and it’s nice not having to worry about cards being damaged if I have to wipe them down. I don’t bother if the cards are the most plasticky sort like Orchard solitaire, because those sort of cards are fine to clean with a damp cloth.
If there’s only a few reference cards that mostly live in the box, or it’s a quickly set up and played game that won’t get left on the table for a few days, then it stays unsleeved.
I’m a lapsed sleever – I went through a phase of sleeving most things, but realised a few things:
– it costs time and money to sleeve games, and I’d rather put that money toward new games or other upgrades
– the majority of games, if one or two cards get damaged, it doesn’t significantly affect the gameplay
– if a game does get ruined through card damage, to the point of becoming unplayable, it’s not the end of the world.
I only sleeve games that come with custom sleeves usually as a Kickstarter bonus. But it of my 400+ games maybe 4 or 5 have sleeves.
I’ve sleeved all my games except for two: Cards Against Humanity and We Didn’t Playtest This At All. The first because I prefer to play in a party setting (drinking and whatnot) and the second to vet new players before allowing them to play my pricier games. In my opinion, if they can handle cards with enough care, they can probably handle anything else with enough care. I’d prefer not to sleeve my cards but most people from my experience don’t know how to grab cards without leaving an indent or wearing the edge a bit when grabbing one. Also, oily fingerprints and gunky buildup are not preventable unless you’re wearing gloves or something. All of this leads to cheating without meaning to where not all cards look the same anymore when they should and more so in frequently played games.
I originally would only sleeve my favorite games, but now I don’t sleeve any new games. I think I started because when I have a game I really love I want it to last for a very long time, and I figured that sleeves were a way to help extend the life of the game.
Now that I have been into the hobby for a longer time, and (maybe more relevant) accumulated many more games, I am realizing that I just think it’s unlikely that I will be playing any given copy of a game enough to physically wear down the cards that much, even for my favorite games. If that ever were to happen, it would be a great problem to have because it would mean that I’ve gotten to play a game I love many, many times :-)
I would also hope that the game would continue to be available / in print for a long time so that if that ever were to happen, I could buy a new copy, but I do think that is a factor for some people as well. At least for now (especially with the Kickstarter-as-a-preorder model being common), it seems like for many games you can never count on there being another printing or later opportunity to buy, so I can see why people want to be very careful with what could be the only copy of the game they will ever be able to get.
And the nice thing is, if you ever end up in a situation where cards have worn enough that they are marked, you can then decide to sleeve them and solve the problem! So I almost never bother sleeving cards outside of MTG (except in the rare occurrence a game has poor card stock, then I will). If I’m playing a game enough that I’m wearing out the cards, it’s not like I’m going to sell it, so why would I care about condition?
That is exactly how we feel. With the amounts of games available for any game to see so many plays to wear out is near impossible once you have accumulated a large library.
I sleeve all of my “treasured” games but leave others unprotected. I feel sleeving “all” games to be a big undertaking and as such a precise high standard, it calls for a low population. I typically use double side equally transparent sleeves. I sometimes use different colored opaque backs to better distinguish cards for different game functions or players.
I’m not at all surprised that relatively few people sleeve their cards. I think you hear about it so often because for the percentage of player who do so, it is important to them, and not all games intentionally accommodate sleeved cards. The rest of us don’t care, so we don’t ask about it. It’s a clear example of a very vocal minority. That’s not to say that publishers shouldn’t consider that minority. (After all, it’s not so small as to be negligible.) But YOU hear from them because you make games that people love, and those who sleeve cards want to be able to enjoy the game with sleeves. If accommodating sleeved cards compromised the games in a clear and obvious way, I’m sure you would hear from the rest of us on the issue tenfold. But it doesn’t, so we’re largely silent on the matter.
If my hands are dirty or greasy it’ll distract me whether or not I’m playing with sleeves so for me the decision to sleeve games has a different factor. The only game I have sleeves right now is Root, and that is largely because I found it difficult to tuck the cards under the Eyrie’s board for the decree. I am also planning on sleeving my copy of Dune since it is a deck builder.
If I ran my own large scale game nights or if I had more games I was trying to preserve for second hand market, I might be more proactive about sleeving cards.
I do find this question interesting because I think those who do sleeve are probably more invested in the hobby and more vocal than those who don’t sleeve. I would expect people posting online, buying inserts, and communicating with the publisher to be more likely to sleeve their cards. Hobby game designers probably need to take this more into consideration than mass market designers.
I am uncertain that you can remove oil and perspiration from your hands……
My hands perspire a lot during tense games, which makes it worse.
My Root cards including expansion pack, are sleeved, because it is a tense game :)
For the sleevers following this thread, do you prefer card sleeves where both sides are perfectly clear, or do you like the kind where one side of the sleeve is more opaque?
Clear, so the card back can be seen.
I did purchase the fan made Terraforming Mars Corporations which have a different card back, and because of that, went ahead and got the Official card sleeves for corporations in order to have the appearance the same between official and fan made (fan made ones have added a lot of uniqueness to the game).
Sorry, just to clarify, but “opaque” I mean “semi transparent”. Both sides are clear, but one side is slightly foggy. It comes across to me as more refined, but it does mean there is a right and wrong way to insert cards into the sleeves, so I’m curious which way sleevers prefer.
For standard sleeves, clear so the art of the card can be seen.
In the case of custom wingspan sleeves, sleeves that have a custom back that either matches or is thematic of Wingspan would be my preference. The sleeves are protection, and I prefer to see the card art. For Dune Imperium, I have the spice must flow sleeves and they are just great sleeves to shuffle and they look awesome! Before I got the upgrade pack, I had sleeve kings and the back of the cards looks good as well.
After subscribing to this “heated” discussion, it seems like the frosty backs would be fine. Completely clear is what I use for most games, but I use opaque backs for social deduction games like “Bang the dice game” or betting games like poker. What games have you seen come with the frosty sleeves?
I haven’t seen any games with frosty sleeves, but it’s an option we have if we want to make properly sized sleeves for Wingspan.
I am not seeing anything heated. I am happy to play with other gamers that don’t sleeve there cards (at Origins, GENCON, and other conventions, and also our game groups). Many do sleeve (I believe it is actually more than 3%, much more, but I think that most do not sleeve all games, which might be 3%). I think it is a matter of preference related to the number of games played (of each game, and how often people replace their games). But also, as Jamey suggested, the feel of linen and smell of fresh cards in hand!
It’s all good, and it is good that people have an opinion. I agree that those, like myself, who do sleeve tend to be more vocal. And gaming is my primary hobby. I have purchased replacement games just for cards and feel that I am throwing my money away (could have bought a new game).
But in no way do I see any of the comments as being heated. It is the same on BGG…..which I have found so much good information and resources for sleeving.
By the way, I am sure everyone know the site, but a good resource outside of BGG, is http://www.sleeveyourgame.com. You can see choices. Some people don’t sleeve, some like thick sleeves, some like medium or penny sleeves, but here you can see what sizes fit or don’t.
Happy gaming!
I personally throw out the insert and sleeve and bag the cards where appropriate. Innovation Deluxe is my favorite tablue builder and doesnt come with an insert, but I made my own so the game can be played by opening the box. Almost zero set up and tear down is just putting the cards back in the box.
If the insert can be composted or recycled, then sleevers can do that if they wish, I certainly have. If SM made sleeves that fit their number 1 game, Im sure people would pony up to get them at the added price, and find a way to store them. It would mean my copy in my store would last longer – even better would be braile sleeves but I dont know what the logistics of that would be. Thanks again for sharing and kindly participating. 🙂
We always sleeve stock cards with premium sleeves playing in the tropics … but we use non glare, or matte sleeves if you are going to be looking at your opponents cards like you do in Wingspan when considering end of round bonuses.
I wonder what the viability would be for replacement decks of plastic cards for Wingspan, like those in Too Many Bones.
Love the textured feel of Dragon Shield and Titan Shield card sleeves.
Braille embossing cards is likely a very expensive proposition on a large scale. 64ozgames would know better than me. We are fortunate enough to have a Braille embosser already, so all we needed was a little MacGuyver spirit, some letter-size adhesive embossing sheets, and give it a try. I already sleeved most cards anyway, so we had the right foundation. Early on, we hand-embossed the cards directly in a couple of small games, and decided that was just too tedious, and went to sleeves.
Once you sleeve with premium sleeves, and apply embossing, each card will be three or four times as thick, so don’t think that any game insert will hold them anymore. Totally impractical to design an insert to handle Brailled cards. Then again, I have zero business aptitude, so maybe someone could fill the accessibility niche at scale. My wife wanted enjoy games as her sight and hearing waned, so we do what we can with what we have.
That aside, custom sleeves for games would appeal to that percentage of folks that sleeve a lot. Except for the fact that I’ve already sleeved Wingspan, if Jamey had “Wingspan Sleeves” I would probably snap those right up.
I generally prefer clear in my board games, opaque in my TCGs, and I tend to avoid art sleeves.
We sleeve all games.
I certainly understand the smell and feel of linen card stock.
We play many of our games, many times the oil, and moisture on our hands have ruined many cards in the past. And additionally, some people are not as easy on cards as I am. Once a card is severely bent or has oils, or sweat, that card can be easily identified in a stack or just looks poorly. Shuffling cards also wears the finish (even some of the highest quality cards like Race doe the Galaxy and Brass, let alone the lower or average quality cards like Terraforming Mars).
I have posted a lot of details about sleeving vs. not sleeving, and which sleeves are the most economic, and best (including pictures).
For large deck games, like wingspan and terraforming mars, we use card shufflers to quickly randomize the cards, and as a side note, 60 micron sleeves will easily go through the shuffler without jams, and you can shuffle the cards in less than 2 minutes (most sleeves that we use are sleeve kings).
To date, we haven’t had any cards damaged from any sleeves. Before, we replaced terraforming mars after about 40 plays (the sides of the cards were worn including the ink, some had some small creases, and some had oil/sweat finish damage.
We typically do not get custom sleeves, except for games we really like that have small decks that can be shuffled by hand (dice throne). But because the dune imperium sleeves were so cool, we opted to get them, and they shuffle by hand easily, so it’s worth it for us.
The bottom line is that we just play our games, especially our favorites like wingspan, and etc., so many times, we simply don’t have the money to replace those games (some people can replace games with no concern, but $50-$100 or more to buy the games just for cards is too much). I do appreciate SM games replacement policy, as it is one more reason that SM is a premium Publisher. However I am not sure that if I asked to replace all the wingspan cards (as a set) each year, it would be well received (we have played over 100 games of wingspan), but have been playing a lot of digital (such a great implementation but Oceania is probably the best expansion of all time, and isn’t digital yet, plus we like to roll the dice and handle the cards and play them in the custom mats). But SM policy should be the same at any publisher……I think games are just to expensive not to drop an additional $5-$10 (one time charge) for sleeves.
I do not use any sleeves thicker than 60 microns (except for those custom sleeves examples) which are mostly 90 microns, due to height, as was mentioned before. 90 micron sleeves will intermittently jam the shuffler.
Finally, I have invested a lot of time to also determine the best storage solution for extra sleeves. You can use the plastic photo boxes (large plastic boxes with individual boxes inside that close meant for photos). I label the boxes individually. Honestly, standard poker card size is the most common, and there are less than 10 sizes that will make up 90% of the games that we have….with some oddballs (space base, tiny epic) out there, but in the case of tiny epic and others, all it must if the games in the line will use the same ones, which is convenient.
Wingspan sleeves caused the most trouble. I sleeved them at the beginning of my sleeving journey, with 90 micron, and the standard sleeves were just too long for the shuffler, so I trimmed them, which took some time. Then they still would occasionally would jam. I changed them all over to sleeve kings, trimmed them, and they are golden! And they easily fit my card holders that I designed and printed (primarily because the red rising ones really don’t work, and our family loves the game).
Sorry for the long post, but sleeving has been a journey of experiences and education, and I have tried to share with many in the hobby to save money, and time. Oh, and if you are only playing games in your library a few times, then don’t bother sleeving……lol…..that’s just not how we roll, our games are all heavily used!
Do you have links for these custom sleeves you mentioned, like could they make sleeves that fit Wingspan perfectly so they didnt have to be “user trimmed”. Also could you link to the boxes and shuffler you mentioned? SM looked at a shuffler but wasnt stoked at what the manufacturer found, perhaps yours is even better 🤷♂️.
If SM offered sleeves for their cards as an added product, or linked to others who had perfect options, that would be sufficient for me. As it is I have not found perfect Wingspan sized sleeves. Im sure if you asked a SM person, you could pay for a complete set of cards for their game.
This is the card shuffler….take care of the handle, this will be what will break after many uses (there is a spare handle in the base that comes with
Amazon (it works well with sleeve kings). I keep 2 of them in our game area.
https://a.co/d/dWZpbPK
The comment about custom sleeves is related to sleeves that are marketed specifically for certain games (not ones that you order as custom).
Jamey had responded to me earlier and indicated they were going to look at custom sleeves for wingspan. If they are 60 micron and fit the sleeves (do not have to be trimmed for the shuffler), the. I will be buying them!
The photo box that I use (I also put spare game parts and old parts that I have replaced with upgrades) is below. It keeps leftovers and new sleeves organized. Spent so much time trying to find a good solution.
Amazon
https://a.co/d/aY3ag0Q
A manual card shuffler what a great thing! I will be getting and testing on my games, thanks so much! The boxes are out of stock but they were nothing like I was imagining, so thank you for sharing.
If I have to shuffle them several times a game, I sleeve. (I’m shuffle impaired.) (Though I bought an automatic shuffler for wingspan because there’s just too many cards to hand shuffle. Wingspan Automa are the only sleeved cards in that box ;)
If people not me will play them, I sleeve. (I’m access to careful players impaired.)
As a Magic: the Gathering player, cards in decks get sleeves. Rare/valuable cards that aren’t in decks go in a binder. The rest is stored in boxes. Games outside of Magic (such as Catan, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Fluxx, Munchkin, or even Risk and Monopoly)? I don’t really sleeve the cards in them, as there are really only two easily-accessible sleeve sizes, and if the game uses any other dimensions for their cards, there isn’t an easy way to get the necessary sleeves.
I do a lot of data analysis work between my doctoral work and my work with teacher teams. I find people’s decision-making and analysis of data is often wrong in how they use it.
Quantitative data does not give a solution, a should, or any actionable answers at all. Quant merely points you in the direction to investigate. Qualitative data gives you information that informs action, but it doesn’t tell you where to look. For clear holistic decision-making one needs both.
Sleeving for example could be an all or none answer, but I imagine is probably far more nuanced than what 3% indicates. For example, I personally do not sleeve every game, but I do sleeve games that use cards, for example, in a drafting mechanic. In general, I look and see how often cards are handled, and if cards are handled a lot in gameplay, then I will sleeve that game. Also, if I feel the game might be a one time print run, or may be hard to find replacement for, I will sleeve. Also, some products (not Stonemaier!) have printing flaws on the back of cards with color variations and inconsistencies – I will sleeve those.
I only ever sleeve my cards if the game comes with the sleeves. I don’t go out of my way to get sleeves or upgrade crowdfunding pledges just to get them. But, if a game I want has the option to upgrade it, and sleeves happen to be included, I will use them if I get them.
So, mostly a “Never” answer, with some caveats.
Just wanted to share some light on my “very few” vote as there might be other people like me in this categori. I have only sleeved my Dune Imperium game because the sleeves came in a bundle and the same with Raiders of the North Sea as the sleeves came with a collectors box. Otherwise I wouldn’t have sleeved these games and would have voted “never”. The only cards I’m considering sleeving are player role cards in hidden traitor games, so you can’t tell the different cards apart because of creases.
I think it’s important to remember that those occasional sleevers are probably sleeving roughly the same games.
It’s likely that there are some games that pretty much everyone from the “most” to “very few” categories will sleeve, giving you a ~70% sleeve rate. Indeed, many of those non sleevers might just not buy games that need sleeves, which could bring the sleeve rate up even higher.
On the other hand, there are likely games where no one but the most hardcore sleevers will bother. For instance, I know half a dozen people with architects of the West Kingdom and they’re all sleeved, but I’ve never seen a sleeved copy of codenames.
So you can’t just assume that ~40% of people will sleeve a game and design around that. You need to figure out where a game sits on that scale, because it could a very different proportion that actually sleeve that game.
Well said!
George is on to something here.
If you are trying to decide how important it is to accommodate for sleeves when designing *your* games asking “How many people sleeve all their games?” doesn’t say much. It would be more appropriate to ask “How many people sleeve Stonemaier Games?” or even “How important is it to you that inserts fit sleeves?”
I don’t sleeve very many of my games, but I do sleeve games that are hard to find, are expensive, or I am playing them enough that I start to get concerned about wear and tear.
So, although the vast majority of my games are not sleeved, when I feel strongly about sleeving a game, it means a lot to me if the insert accommodates sleeves because the alternative feels pretty crappy.
I have a game by another publisher that after a few plays, I knew I would want to play it a lot and be able to bring it to events without worrying about dirty hands/wear and tear. So, I decided to sleeve it. However, after sleeving just the most important of the 3 decks of cards in the game, I already have to play Tetris to fit the cards into the insert. So, my options were a) Take off all the sleeves and commit to only playing the game with washed hands in optimal conditions. b) Leave it only half protected (aka half sleeved) or c) sleeve the whole thing and get rid of the insert. Well, after 3 years with it half sleeved, I have discovered there was actually an option d) Just leave the game in the box and don’t play it.
Specifically, the main issue is that the compartment for the cards didn’t have the extra length and width to accommodate for the size of the sleeves. So any amount of sleeved cards displaces other components, and there is very limited space in that compartment. Now, if the cards fit in the card slot, but there just wasn’t enough height for all of them, it would have been a different story. I simply would have taken out the more complicated cards/ones I like less and keep those in a deck box at home. So when I play at home, I’ve got a full copy, and when I take it to other peoples houses I don’t have to worry about if people washed their hands or are keeping their drink on the table — and I know that I won’t run into any of more complicated or obnoxious to teach mechanics.
But alas, since the cards don’t fit in the compartment and since I didn’t want to ditch the insert, the game sits on my shelf mostly untouched.
So, when I hear about a game that sounds super cool, and the publisher is talking about an awesome insert, it means a lot to me to hear that the insert will fit sleeves. Because I know that if I decide that I love the game and want to protect it, I won’t have to choose between protecting the cards and tossing the insert.
Your games tend to be high quality with great components and frequently have amazing custom inserts, which I always appreciate. I think it is ok to ask the small percent of super-sleevers to make some concessions, but I also think it is important not to completely nullify an insert. Maybe non-sleevers have room in the base game box for expansions, but sleevers need to carry an extra box. Or non-sleevers get to use that extra compartment in the insert for upgraded components and promos while sleevers need it as spillover storage for cards.
I had never previously considered the extra production cost for accommodating sleeves, and I think your inquiry into peoples sleeving habits is indicative of the the attention to details you bring to your games. Whether you continue to allow space for sleeves or not, I am sure I will continue to buy your games. : )
I really appreciate these helpful insights! I can definitely say that we’ll always try to make the best insert possible (when we include an insert) for both sleevers and non-sleevers.
CMON’s Modern Art has an ingenious solution to accommodate sleeved and unsleeved cards snugly AND make both options easily retrievable for play from the insert. I generally would only sleeve if the insert allows for it. (having semi-destroyed my Dixit insert to fit 2 expansions). Further more, sleeving is as therapeutic as punching out inserts when unboxing a new game. :-)
Well said! I agree.
George: Definitely! That’s what I was talking about in the post in this paragraph: “I’d note that the priority changes a bit for any game that requires frequent shuffling (like a deckbuilder), just as the priority shifts the other way for a game in which the cards are never shuffled.”
The only time I have sleeved was in the case where the inks smeared due to acidic skin oils…(TI4 I look in your direction!). However this has been an isolated case (100+ games so far); and on a game that price and with that much plastic, I can not justify ruining the cards and buying another copy, which is what Id do if it were a game under 30can$. However every other deck of cards has held up just fine no matter how much use and abuse they undergo! Personally I appriciate the character that well loved decks gain. Also I this not the board game equivilant of putting plastic covers on your furniture? I get for CCGs your trying to both use and preserve mint condition for future resale; but that is just not the case with a board game! Unless someone out there wants to buy a No. 6 for the Mind…then contact me..30us$ and I promise that it has never been out of the sleeve!
I typically don’t sleeve any games at all. I personally don’t like the look or feel of sleeved cards. I like to riffle shuffle so for me, the biggest “card” consideration in games is that the cards are flexible and shuffle well without bending or creasing.
I have maybe 2-3 games in my collection that have some/any cards sleeved (collection of 400+ games). One I sleeved, with provided sleeves, because it’s hidden roles and edge damage would give away your role over repeated plays. I am debating sleeving just the solo cards for Glen More II due to high use (it’s my favorite game) but there’s like 10 cards total there. I’ve actually un-sleeved games that I received in trade that were sleeved.
I learned how to make print and play cards for the longevity of my games. Sleeving never felt right to me. I’d rather make be able to print out replacements
The problem with sleeves is that you have to find the exact fit and the cost to sleeve your cards are quite expensive. You could easily spend $40 to sleeve cards in a game.
If you don’t play the game often, what is the value to spend the extra $?
Reformed sleever here. I still sleeve my LCG’s that see heavy shuffle, but over the last decade plus I’ve come to view it as an unnecessary and frivolous solution in search of a problem. Ironically the only cards I’ve ever lost to liquid damage were inside a sleeve. I digress. There’s a lot of variable mileage in the justification of the accessory.
The data is somewhat surprising, but also holds true to one of the foundations of online gamer rhetoric, which is that the empty spray can rattles the loudest.
I sleeve most newly released games (especially crowdfunded games that might have exclusives) that I haven’t had the opportunity to play before. Basically, if I decide I want to cull the game in the future, I want to make sure the cards are in great condition. I also want to make sure that if an expansion is available in the future, there’s no difference between the cards.
However, I’m trying to sleeve less these days just to have less plastic in my games. It’s a struggle! :)
Oooh, interesting! I have some stuff sleeved, but honestly I really love the broken-in softness of cards that have been handled over and over. Same with rulebooks that have crinkly edges from being flipped through many times. It gives it that patina of love, and adds a uniqueness. :) I do the same thing with books too.
I’m way more likely to ditch the baggies that come with most games and use more durable containers for components. If I’m tossing out an insert, it’s because it doesn’t work with my containers. I use Cottage Mills Connect-a-Box containers and they become the insert when that happens. Down with baggies! (I realize I’m preaching to the choir, here.)
Board games are really expensive in Brazil. So we sleeve every single card to increase its durability.
Interpreting data is interesting. One could choose to interpret (top poll) that a third of your audience sleeves some/most/all of their cards [38%] or (bottom poll) that almost half your audience sleeves some/most/all of their cards [45%]. If you count the fact that those that sleeve ‘very few’…. still DO sleeve, one could say that the majority of your audience will sleeve on occasion. Yet you chose to focus on the 3%.
Also, you may assume that the gamers requesting room for sleeved cards in inserts are only/primarily coming from the 3%, but that’s likely not true at all.
Finally, you mention that you can understand why gamers sleeve deck builders or games with heavy card use. However, sleevers will sleeve for various reasons. Protect from sweaty hands, prefer to shuffle with sleeves, easier to pick up in some cases, play games with kids etc. In these instances, the type of board game doesn’t matter in regards to choosing to sleeve said game.
Hi! I clicked “all” even though it’s not all: here is my reasoning. If I bought a “hobby game,” I will be sleeving the cards right away. If I bought a Stonemaier Game, I would be sleeving the cards right away. If the insert does not accommodate sleeved cards, I would be disappointed. Here are some circumstances where I would not sleeve: the game is cheap and easily replaceable (UNO), the cards are a weird size (Codenames Pictures), or if the insert is really nice but won’t fit sleeved cards, I might not sleeve it (Dominion), but in that case it might get less playtime because I don’t want the game to get messed up (I’ve had Dominion for months and haven’t played it yet for this reason. How can I sleeve that thing and still fit it all back in the box?) If I spent $50 or more in the game, I will make an effort to sleeve if I can. If I spent $100 or more on the game, I will be sleeving it right away even if that means buying special sized sleeves. I have everything ever made for The 7th Continent, and I’ve sleeved it all, even though the cards are a weird size. I’ve even sleeved the cardboard dividers for that game. I love having sleeved cards. Maybe one day I will sleeve 100% of all my games, even UNO and Monopoly. 😊
Thanks for sharing, Jennifer, and the 7th Continent sleeving intrigues me the most, as the majority of cards in that game aren’t shuffled or even handled on a regular basis. Given the number of cards in that game, I would think it would be tough for the 7th Continent creators to reasonable account for both sleeved and unsleeved cards in the box.
Yes! It takes up a lot more room sleeved, that’s for sure. All the 7th Continent cards fit into the two main boxes, and then I have the accessories stored in an additional 2 boxes. Altogether it takes up a whole Kallax cube. It’s one of my most expensive and hardest to replace games, and it’s also one of my top 10 favorites, even though it gets played only about once a year (one curse a year, which lasts for several days at a time). So that’s why it is totally worth sleeving for me. Also my game partner’s hands get sweaty occasionally, and I don’t want to risk any yuckiness on my precious. Last time we played, even though we are always careful, a card sleeve got accidentally ripped. Luckily I had an extra card sleeve to replace it. I shudder to think of what if the game was not sleeved and the card got accidentally ripped instead. Much easier to replace a ripped card sleeve than a ripped card.
We also have kids, and they are not old enough to play a lot of our games, but when they play an “8+ up” game we tend to sleeve those cards too, because it helps protect them from little hands -accidental ripping and folding has happened before.
I also recently sleeved Splendor. It was one of our first “real” games and still one of my favorites. I didn’t sleeve it for a long time because the insert was so nice but did not allow room for sleeved cards. The cards started to show a bit of wear, and I figured out a solution for sleeving them: keep the sleeved cards in tuck boxes underneath the insert! There’s a lot of room down there. That worked for a while, although taking out the insert to get to the cards was a pain. Just last week, I had some game store credit to spend and realized it was time to give one of my favorite games another upgrade: buying an insert for Splendor that accommodates sleeved cards. Now it is an even better gaming experience!
Stonemaier Games is one of my favorite publishers. I love how your newsletters are so transparent and how you welcome comments from the community. Keep up the great work! 😊
Thanks so much for your detailed answer, Jennifer! This is very helpful, and that’s a great tip about Splendor. :)
Yes! the Cardboard dividers need sleeving! What did you use?
Hi Shayne,
Dixit-sized sleeves are the perfect size for the 7th Continent dividers. I think I had to trim the bottoms of the sleeves, but you never see that part so there’s no pressure in cutting it 100% perfectly straight. 😊
Your efforts to improve your games are always very commendable. But I don’t like the clickbaity title. It also seems that you wanted to confirm your bias the way you interpreted the results. But that could be my own bias as someone who likes to sleeve his games :)
For me, there are also almost no games where you “never shuffle the cards”. You need to at least shuffle the decks at the beginning of the game, like in Tapestry or Scythe. And no matter how good the cards are – and the quality of stonemaier cards outshines most other games I own or ever played – after a few shuffles the cards show it. There is a reason why casinos use plastic cards or decks in tournaments often only get used one time. But, I know, a lot of people are not as bothered by the used like like I am.
I still think, it should that hard to create functioning inserts for both groups. Most third party inserts work with sleeved and unsleeved cards. I also really like tuck boxes for storage, but they are not always the best solution. The more different decks you need to set up before play, the worse are tuck boxes – don’t want to open six boxes before I play. Larger compartments with dividers work better, when a lot of decks are needed.
Also, the plastic inserts are almost every time bad. The rounded corners cost a lot of space, and when I want to throw them out It have a guilty conscience because they are not really recyclable.
A clickbait title is one that misleads. In this case, it’s an accurate representation of the data I had at the time, hence why I posed the question in the title. I do try to use catchy titles from time to time–I write so people can read and participate–but I do not mislead or use clickbait.
You are right that most games include a single shuffle of the cards once per game. But there are games that include no shuffling at all, like Destinies and Sleeping Gods.
I don’t think that clickbait is necessarily misleading, sometimes only sensational. I didn’t wanted to insinuate that you are dishonest. Sorry, if it came across this way.
I haven’t even thought about games like Destinies or Chronicles of Crime (which I played of the two). Legacy and Campaign Games are also special in this case. I normally sleeve all my games, but I did not sleeve all the cards in Etherfields. Some of the cards are used as Map-Tiles. They only get used once or twice during the campaign. Due to the vast amount of cards, the game would have been almost impossible to store in a practical way with sleeved cards. So I only sleeved the player cards that are used in a deck building mechanic.
I too love the feel of cards, but living in the tropics cards age very quickly so sleeves are the norm.
I am itching for someone to make sleeves for 57×87 cards in Wingspan, rather than using the sleeves for 57×89 cards that I currently have.
This seems like an easy Stonemaire product to offer in the future, Panda doesnt say if they make card sleeves but Im sure they know a place that could make them. 56×87mm are a thing, but since Wingspan is the company’s #1 game, I wonder what it would take. Maybe Meeple Source could find an answer 🤔.
I live in hope
I only sleeve games that require a lot of shuffling (like Fort the deck builder) or are unplayable if you can tell from the back of the card (like a hidden role card). I haven’t sleeved any Stonemaier games. I like the linen feel of the Wingspan cards. Plus there are way too many cards to sleeve economically or timewise for me personally. Scythe power cards: there is a big enough deck with duplicates that I don’t think anyone in my group is going to notice specific wear patterns for a particular card. Same for Viticulture. We may go months between playing any particular title since we play a lot of different games. Even if a game is a deck builder like Clank!, if the deck is big I’m less likely to sleeve it.
I sleeve for games like Dragonfire, where you attach and slide clips on (some of) the cards, to prevent damage/wear, or the character cards in the Pathfinder Adventure Card game, where you have to mark off options that are taken as you level up. I don’t sleeve anything in which the cards are just handled/shuffled as normal.
I sleeve a lot of games, and while I see some of the reasons I sleeve listed, there are some reasons I sleeve that haven’t been…
I tend to sleeve cards in games where the cards are held. For Scythe this means my combat cards are sleeved, but the other cards are not. Encounter and Secret Objective cards simply are not handled to the same degree that combat cards are. And if a 5 combat card is noticeably damaged enough to tell it from the rest that can affect play. Along this same vain I have absolutely sleeved 7 Wonders, Race for the Galaxy, Dune: Imperium, and Terraforming Mars but would never sleeve Saint Petersburg or Splendor.
Another major reason is expansions. By the time I bought Dune: Imperium Rise of Ix, or 7 Wonders or Race for the Galaxy or Terraforming Mars expansions I had played the games many many times. This means the wear simply won’t be even across base game cards and expansion cards, and this knowledge can affect gameplay. For the same reason print run consistency is so important, so is wear leveling.
As a result, I answered “most”, and I think you really have to consider that in many cases to be synonymous with “all”. I also think that how the cards are used has to be considered wrt whether you are going to make room in the box for sleeved cards.
Some of my games I sleeve. I have criteria that I follow:
1) The game is expensive to replace. I some games that are out of print so I don’t want the cards to get damaged.
2) The game requires a lot of shuffling of cards. This could strengthen number one.
3) The game could be unplayable when you recognize the card from the back. Shuffling is not the only reason this could happen.
4) The game is played many many times and item 1 or 2 could happen.
5) I have extra card sleeves as you always have extra. Like how you have more hotdogs than buns. It ever evens out.
It is fantastic when the game you want to sleeve has space in the tray. It is hard for me to throw out a tray when everything fits nicely.
We play games for ‘fun’ and like the feel of the original materials used, so . . . we’d never sleeve cards. It’s been enlightening for me to learn about sleeves as I read the posts for the Nesting Box Design Process this past year and a half (or, has it been longer?)
I think it’s been about a year. :)
I would do all if they fit. Can’t find good fit for Wingspan cards. Just want cards to last longer
I started unsleeving my games and am more judicious of which games I sleeve.
I value my Wingspan game and there is a lot of shuffling and handling so I sleeve that. Viticulture is unsleeved. And Rolling Realms should not be sleeved.
Is an insert really that much larger to accommodate sleeved cards? I hate it when the insert is just too small and I have to toss it OR there are so many cards and sleeving doubles the space required so I toss the insert.
Maybe inserts need to be rethought – why do they take up so much space and leave so much room for air? Maybe they should be biodegradable since when an expansion comes, even if a game is unsleeved there isn’t enough room to keep the expansion in the base box and the insert has to go. I’m sure Etsy sellers prefer the original insert to be temporary.
I’m looking forward to the new biodegradable insert for Wingspan! For future ideas, I would be interested in tuckbox paper bins to hold components. Are those expensive from a publisher’s point of view?
In terms of length and width, sleeves don’t add much. But in terms of thickness, some sleeves can double the amount of space needed for cards. It’s handy to have that space for expansions…but if you’re also sleeving expansion cards, it becomes untenable.
I like tuckboxes as a nice alternative to inserts. They’re not all that expensive (though it depends on how nice/big you make them).
As an avid sleever these results seem way higher than I would have expected. 75% of respondents sleeve at least some games in their collection. That’s the majority of your customers (or ambassadors ).
I can’t truthfully answer “all” as:
– Some games have PVC cards
– Some games haven’t been opened yet
– Some games I sleeve as we play them (eg. Gloomhaven Jaws of the Lion comes to mind as it’s on our dining table right now. As we obtain or unlock cards they get sleeved)
– Some are cheap games I’ve been given, and probably will never sleeve
But most of the games that I’ve gone out of my way to purchase for my collection are sleeved… and the majority of those it’s every card in the game including reference cards.
Perhaps a more targeted question for your customers is, how many of your Stonemaier games are sleeved?
My answer would be all of them except Rolling Realms (for obvious reasons) and I own all of them except for My Little Scythe.
Richard, just a quick correction based on on the most recent poll, only 45% of respondents sleeve at least “some” of the games in their collection. The other 55% sleeve very few or none of their games.
“Few” is not zero :-)
If I have 350 games (which I do), and the only ones that are sleeved are SM games that would count as “few” :-)
(in truth, I’ve probably sleeved 100+ of those games…. now I’m curious, I need to actually count how many I have sleeved!)
I didn’t say “zero.” :) I’m just repeating what you said: “some”. Some is a category in the poll, so all respondents who said “some” or more add up to 45%, while those who said “very few” or “never” are 55%.
Yeah, I realise that :-)
Anyway, as a sleever the “some” total is still higher than I expected, and still a huge proportion of the respondents.
For comparison, looking at your 2017 demographic survey 91% of your respondents are male. Does that mean you should ignore the other 9% that aren’t male? Obviously not!
https://stonemaiergames.com/5-surprises-from-our-demographic-survey/
Again, Richard, no one is suggesting that we ignore anyone. I really don’t know where you’re getting that from, and I’d kindly ask you to stop saying that’s what anyone is proposing here. Anyone who wants our games to bring them joy at the tabletop, no matter their gender, age, ethnicity, creed, culture, or sleeving preference is someone we care about and want to serve.
I find these results interesting, but feel like they may still be slightly biased. I imagine more people who are adamant about sleeving would be intrigued by the post and take the survey. I’m with you where I like the feel of the cards. Due to the massive quantity of games available, most games unfortunately don’t see the light of day enough to get much wear and tear.
I can see sleving a deck builder that gets played a lot. I did it with Tanto Cuore once I bought all of them. The first one I got was actually the vacation edition, and I would take it to the bar and play unsleved, and the cards are in a little bit of ruff shape not so bad that I can’t play with them. But once buying all of them and spending that much money I decided I wanted to protect them so I sleved all of them. That’s the only game I went out of my way to sleve other then a tcg. A friend did selves one of my small box 2 player card game, and a couple of legendary expansion I bought had sleeves (which is inconvenient since there not all sleeved)
We hardly sleeve anything. Really only heavy use cards, specifically Magic the Gathering decks. We aren’t surprised about how many people never sleeve cards, but especially considering that those are ambassadors, so extra geeky geeks, the results for the “most” and “all” are still surprising!
I haven’t felt the need to sleeve. We don’t play with a ton of food and drinks around our games, so we aren’t too concerned about that reason to sleeve. We try to be careful with our shuffling, so the cards don’t look super beat up. If the edges or backs do start to wear a bit from use, it’s just a sign the game is well loved and used. I also like that the game fits in the container provided and there aren’t added costs to every game—no need to buy the sleeves and then the different inserts to keep things where they need to be if the publisher has provided adequate space and means for organizing.
I only sleeve games that either have collectable/blind box cards, or games that you would need to shuffle decks midgame or often, like deckbuilders.
I think part of the problem here is semantics. Did I answer “all”? Yes. Because I sleeve all the games I routinely play with. But I have dozens of games and some of them aren’t sleeved simply because they’ve been played once or not yet.
But I do sleeve all games that I plan to play more than 3 times. And I sleeve all games that I want to keep looking nice. Or that I imagine I’ll still be playing in 5 years. The wear and damage to cards is quite noticable, especially in games where you don’t use all of an expansion all the time or have only subsets of cards out in any one game.
It it’s a lot easier to buy replacement sleeves for games that have gone out of print than it is to try to find a copy of a beloved game on the third party market.
Thanks Steve! I’d put that in the “most” category.
If you are curious on the poll results, James Hudson did create one of his “salty rant” videos where he goes over the poll results (as well as the reasons why he chose the solution he did for sleevers).
That’s a really interesting finding! James Hudson, during the most recent Kickstarter for Tidal Blades 2, also heard a lot of comments about sleeving and when he did a poll for backers, only a small number of backers were actually sleevers (can’t remember the incidence, 7-17% perhaps?).
However, they were disproportionately vocal about their need for a box/insert to accommodate sleeved cards. Other stakeholders in game publishing have discussed this, and sleevers simply believe they are a majority in gaming and any amount of data doesn’t seem to quell their perception. Super interesting! (personally, I am a sleever but my OCD should not drive economic and existential decisions like shipping costs due to large volume boxes, lack of shelf space for big boxes or carbon footprint from plastic sleeves)
Thanks for sharing that data, Susan–I’m a backer of that campaign but missed the poll, and it’s interesting to hear the results.
I think that’s the thing. The hardcore gamers that sleeve a LOT are also relatively more active online, including KS comments, Reddit and BGG. A lot of people that don’t sleeve, won’t mind a few millimeters of margin in the insert, but those that would miss it, might get loud. So it’s probably a good bet to please those few %, if it’s within the reasonable realm of possibilities. From a business standpoint, I wonder if those people that sleeve all, have a higher Average Order Value or Lifetime Value, as they might order more deluxe stuff
Also a very interesting premise…looking for key characteristics for sleevers and using that data to drive decisions or customer stratification to inform product development. Sadly, I’m not sure we’ll ever get a good study sample that could be widely applicable or generalizable.
I propose the choice should depend sensitively on the game you’re making and who it’s for. My company makes gateway games with a BGG weight generally under 2. We generally don’t leave room for sleeves and receive almost no complaints.
I tend to sleeve games that I either play a lot or that I’m worried might have availability problems in the future should anything happen. I.e. all my Button Shy cards are sleeved because they meet both criteria.
I’d also agree with some of the “vocal minority” observations here, but I think a crucial angle is missing. If you prefer not to sleeve and an insert supports sleeved cards, it doesn’t matter – your stuff still fits with maybe a little extra room and you’re happy. *However* the inverse isn’t true – if you prefer to sleeve a game, either because you sleeve everything or because it meets whatever criteria you have, and the insert doesn’t support sleeved card you’re totally out of luck. So an insert that supports sleeved cards satisfies everyone while one that doesn’t creates problems for some subset of customers. That’s why I think the minority in this case ends up also being vocal.
Dave: I think that’s true in most cases, but I think there are rare instances where an insert or tray is less effective (or even ineffective) because of sleeve accommodations. Perhaps more common is when a game features a lot of cards–at a certain point, due to the thickness that some sleeves add, you would need to significantly increase the size of the insert, tray, or even the box to fit those sleeved cards, increasing the price for everyone even though it’s only helping a small number of people.
I agree that in most cases supporting sleeves in the insert doesn’t impact anyone else (other than in a few cases as Jamey mentions as well).
But still, even if sleevers are a small minority should they be ignored? I mean it’s a far less serious issue than diversity and representation obviously, but there are some people where sleeves are a necessity due to sensitivity issues. They would likely be a tiny minority of your customers, but not zero. I started using sleeves as I have very oily/greasy hands which really impacts the cards pretty quickly.
Anyway, I think SM does a reasonable job generally of providing good inserts. And I applaud your efforts with finding more environmentally friendly packaging and insert options, which is a bit ironic as I’m an avid sleever :-) However sleeves can be re-used at least as I have moved them from one game to another at times. I have a small drawer full of used sleeves waiting for the next game where they will be put to use.
I don’t think anyone is saying that sleevers should be ignored–quite the opposite. Rather, here’s how I said it in the post: “It seems that I should focus on optimizing for non-sleeved cards while making space (when possible) for sleevers.”
I sleeve almost all the cards, for two reasons. To protect the cards from wear, and most importantly, so my wife can still enjoy the game. My wife has Usher Syndrome, which has taken most of her sight. Sleeving the cards allows us to apply Braile to the sleeves, leaving the card unchanged for sighted players, while allowing my wife to read the cards. This, along with some other alterations and enhancements (tactile components, Braille overlays), allows her to enjoy the games she loves to play.
Thank you for sharing that, Scott!
Adding brail to the sleeves is ingenious! Is this something you do yourself or do you have a company like https://64ozgames.com/ that you work with? What a huge step up in making games more accessible to people, I did not even know about this and am now looking at adding brail sleeves to my games!
I supported 64ozgames way back on their first Kickstarter. We have our own Braille embosser, so most of our game enhancement is DIY tailored for my wife, but 64ozgames does a fantastic job of game upgrade kits. When sleeving, we use the transparent, thicker, premium sleeves, because they work better with the embossing and last longer. We have transparent, letter-sized, embossing sheets that we print several cards overlays on, then cut up and apply to the sleeves. Sighted players can still read the cards protected in the sleeves. For player boards, Orleans for example, we printed a transparent Braille overlay for my wife to use, and have a Braille listing of the building tiles with explanation.
We also like to swap out playing pieces with more tactile versions when possible (we have a lot of the Stonemaier Resource Kits that they used to sell), and metal coins (the Viticulture and Scythe coins are perfect).
I have actually only sleeved one game, Grand Hotel Austria, because a) it was my gateway game and still basically tied with Wingspan for my favorite game ever, and b) whether it will continue to be printed is a bit iffy, especially the Let’s Waltz expansion, so I want to make sure the cards last. I’m confident that new copies of Wingspan will always be available, so I’m less concerned about its cards wearing out :-)
I sleeve all the cards of my kickstarter games because they are limited editions. I also sleeve the cards of my retail games when they are shuffled/manipulated often.
I like the feel of cards honestly. Also sleeves make decks so much thicker and to me take away from the beauty of the cards sometime.
I love the idea of sleeving cards since I am super protective/careful with my games, however, I can’t get over the loss of quality in both how the card “looks”, how reflective lights are off of the shiny surface, or the loss of “feel”/tactileness of the card.
I don’t sleeve any cards because it scares away casual gamers. And right now I’m mainly a gateway for getting my circles more interested in medium/heavy games.
I really prefer the look and tactility of unsleeved cards so sleeve in. Wry few cases. I sleeved our Journeys in Middle Earth player cards because those tiny things were ridiculous to shuffle (which you have to do a LOT) and flirted with sleeping in Marvel Champions because I play it too much and am wearing down the cards but ultimately decided not to leave them sleeved because they take up so much more space compared to unsleeved.
I think that many people who sleeve games sleeve only the games they intend to keep.
That counld be the reason why “All” is so low and “Very Few” is so high.
I assume that if you buy an insert for a game it will stay in your collection hence if you are a sleever you will sleeve it.
I personally find annoying when a game has a really good insert but it wont fit sleeved cards. In those cases I usually toss the insert or buy a custom one but it is wasteful (conomically and environmentally).
I only sleeve a game if its out of print and never going to come back, i.e. Union Pacific.
I sleeve some cards for most of my games. I prioritize cards that are either shuffled frequently or held in-hand. I’m also not made of money or time, so sleeving every card I own isn’t attractive as a value prospect. It’s more like insurance.
I like the feel of cards like you do, but I find sleeved cards easier to shuffle. I can do an effective Faro shuffle without worrying about bending or splitting the cards (premium sleeves required), and also let the other players shuffle without worrying about them bending the cards like they might if they fail at a riffle shuffle, which many people are bad at.
Over 250 games and all cards are sleeved.
I only sleeve a very small minority of my games since it makes the deck way bigger, annoyingly unstable and I don’t like the feel of them in my hand (I like the feel of the paper, cardstock, etc). I sleeved the action selection cards in Ark Nova since they are sliding all the time, but I definitely did not sleeve the main deck. I also sleeved my Cartographers deck since there are very few cards and are shuffled a lot. One good thing about the inserts being made for sleeved cards is that it makes it easier for us non-sleevers to get them out and if there are expansions there is usually space for it in the main box if the cards are not sleeved.
I also like the feel of linen embossed cards. While I love for my games to look brand new, I also like the look of games that have a little love in them.
Agree that this is a vocal minority thing. I do find it interesting though that sleeving seems to accompany games where cards are shuffled/handled a lot? I specifically don’t sleeve because I find handling sleeved cards annoying (I’ve tried it a couple times). I like or even need the feel of the un-sleeved cards. So for me, I would think sleeving makes more sense if you handle the cards less.
We’ve never seen noticeable wear on cards for any of the games we own, but we rotate through playing a lot of different games. We also don’t ever trade/sell our games. I always assumed this was the majority experience, and I think this poll backs that up. More so since I wonder if this poll has a bias towards indicating more sleeving than actually takes place, as those most likely to be engaged with SMG via the site and polls lean towards being die-hard gamers, which I’m sure are more likely to sleeve vs. average population.
For games with a lot of handling the cards (like shuffling – Pandemic, Distilled, “Solo AI” cards,…), I sleeve them for protection. When sleeving the cards, you need a box in which you can store sleeved cards (bigger box is more expensive for publisher). I’m always reassured when the box has room enough for sleeved cards.
I have Magic the Gathering Revised Edition Dual Lands worth hundreds of dollars each that I still don’t sleeve. : P No reason to start now for my modern board game collection.
I view the results with a slightly opposite perspective. 80% gamers polled sleeve their games to some degree compared to 20% who never. Like in other industries, designing for the lowest common denominator tends to appeal to a broader audience. Which game will be sleeved this time round–well, we kind of know as indicated. But overall, I would optimize inserts for sleeving, and keep the non-sleeving ideas to a minimum. Other considerations to paint a larger picture that may help with market decisions goes to a continued look at demographics. Do people who obsessively, infrequently, or do not sleeve spend more money or less on games and game accessories. Disclosure: I have immense love for tangible paper products, but have fallen into the habit of sleeving everything. I do appreciate both worlds.
I can see an argument that 38% of the original respondents sleeve their games, but I think it’s clear from the poll that sleeving is exceptionally rare for 61% of those respondents.
I’d like to indicate that “all” meant every game in my collection. I’m a die hard sleever, but I had to select “most” because some titles won’t take sleeves because the cards won’t fit back into the insert, or I’m not going to sleeve a $7 Gamewright title. So I would combine “most” and “all” as the indicator of sleevers.
Exactly! Same thoughts here… I’m not gonna look for sleeves size 74mmx32mm (honestly, I do look… but not always find exotic sizes xD) so us “sleevers” are all+most combined. I would even take “some” into consideration since they do it on a somewhat regular basis too.
I can’t remember if I selected Most or Some… but I think at a guess I’ve probably sleeved somewhere between 100 and 150 of my games, and since I have about 350 games that’s not most! (counting most as 50%+ )… And I’m an avid sleever.
I only sleeve games that require a lot of card handeling. Stonemeier games have some of the best quality card stock and despite over 200 games of Wingspan none of the cards show significant wear. Some of my friends sleeve everything and most sleeve the same way I do. If a game costs 20$ it’s unlikely to get sleeved
I am very meticulous with my games and want them to list as long as possible. I sleeve every card I have. I know I’m a minority in this but I can’t play a game I own until it’s sleeved. The moment I break open the wrapping of the game, I check the size of the cards and open my drawer full of sleeves and get to work. It’s my one true joy besides playing said game :)
I mostly sleeve my cards. One other factor for me is buying collectors editions or deluxe editions. Those I definitely sleeve, and if the inserts don’t hold sleeved cards then I’m actually turned off buying them. If I am paying $150-$300 for a game, I want it to be protected and space for sleeved cards included without me paying an additional $50-$90 for a 3rd party insert.
That’s cool to hear, Mark. I enjoy hearing other people’s fun niche joys.
I only sleeve a small percentage of my games, but I still really appreciate when there’s room for all cards to be sleeved, because – if the game is a big hit and we play it a ton, I’m going to want to sleeve it. So while I don’t need every game I own to have room, when I’m buying a new one, I’m still hoping each time that I will need the room, if that makes sense.
I only tend to sleeve deck builders or games that you have to shuffle a lot.
This sounds like a case of a “very vocal minority.”
The ones who sleeve all the time are going to be passionate about it since it requires a lot of time and money to sleeve every game.
I never sleeve and never care (only here to play), so I rarely speak up since it doesn’t affect me much imo
We don’t sleeve the cards
:)