While it’s common practice on Kickstarter, in the 6 years since we stopped using Kickstarter as a creator, we haven’t made two versions of the same game. But for Red Rising we thought that offering both a Collector’s Edition ($65 on our webstore) and a standard version of Red Rising ($40 from retailers) would be a good way to serve a few different categories of customers:
- Fans of the books: I figured that some fans might want the special version, while others might be new to the world of hobby gaming and might find the lower price point of the retail version more palatable.
- Gamers and fans of Stonemaier Games: If you look on most Kickstarter projects, you’ll see that gamers (early adopter gamers, at least) are much more excited about special versions of games than the standard editions. Also, it’s fun to offer something special to those who buy directly from us.
- Retailers: Conversations with retailers confirmed that they would have a much easier time selling a $40 product than a $60+ product. While I worried that they wouldn’t like that they could only sell the retail version, they seemed to really like that we had no plans to sell the retail version on our webstore.
- Localization partners: Typically our localization partners (those who publish our games in other languages) only have one option, so I thought they might like the choice between the two versions. As it turns out, very few of them sell directly to consumers, so they preferred the more retail-friendly standard version.
The two versions are purely cosmetic–each has the exact same gameplay elements. I think this strategy was crucial in reducing any potential friction between us and various clients. The Collector’s Edition has foil and individual numbering on the box, foil on the Gold cards, a custom insert, card holders, and metal tokens (instead of plastic):
We wagered that there might be a small number of people who wanted the Collector’s Version but also wanted to support their preferred retailer. For them we made an upgrade pack containing the gold-foil cards, card holders, and metal components:
Meanwhile, similar to what he did with Wingspan, Alex was pitching the standard version of Red Rising to Target. They really liked the price point and they loved the box art by Jacqui Davis, so they committed to a significant quantity early in the production process. It has started appearing on their shelves:
Lessons Learned
How did this strategy work out? In the initial print run of Red Rising, we made 15,000 Collector’s Editions and 20,000 standard versions. There was some overlap in components, which reduced production costs via economies of scale. We had early commitments from distributors for the standard versions (and we’ve made several printings since then), but the Collector’s Edition quantity was a guess (and thus a complete gamble). Fortunately, it seemed to be approximately the right number, as our supply is only now starting to dwindle (a few hundred units remain).
Other than quantity guesswork, the other big challenge is future expansion compatibility. We’re waiting for Pierce to finish book 6 before we start brainstorming the next step in the Red Rising tabletop world, but it’s possible it will be an expansion to the original game involving more cards. Do we make two versions of the expansion or just one fancy version (the cards would still be compatible)?
Also, this experiment was a good reminder that if we make a Collector’s Edition product, every aspect of it must be perfect. That’s true for any product, but small issues stand out and become the primary topic of conversation when it’s a Collector’s Edition. Our new proofreading and oversight process is designed to identify and eliminate any such issues in the future. We’re making painted versions of the metal cubes and ships to alleviate the coloring issues (this metal pack will be available on our webstore in a few months).
Overall, it seems like we were able to serve the 4 categories of customers by offering two versions of the same game. That’s what is most important to me. As a result, it’s something we may consider in the future if there are several cosmetic upgrades that aren’t necessary for the game but could add to the experience. Note the emphasis on “several”; if there’s only one fancy component (like metal coins), I would just make one version of the game and sell that component as a webstore add-on. Also, we can only consider this strategy if we think there’s enough interest to sell at least 1500 units of the Collector’s Edition to meet the minimum order quantities for the upgraded components.
What do you think about this strategy, whether it’s on or off of Kickstarter?
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Also read: The Deluxe Dilemma
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34 Comments on “Lessons Learned from Simultaneously Printing a Collector’s Edition and a Standard Version of Red Rising”
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[…] also probably make two versions of the same game again in the future, just like Red Rising: one for our webstore, and one for retailers. This entails the right combination of factors (e.g., […]
[…] Red Rising announcement: I’ve been trying to design and publish a game based on the Red Rising series of novels for years now, so I was incredibly excited to announce this new game. We sold 9,535 units during the preorder (before which we donated $10,724 to the ACLU based on the number of preorder launch requests), and there are now over 120,000 units in circulation worldwide. I shared lessons learned about Red Rising as our first IP game and printing the Collector’s and standard editions together. […]
Thanks for another great post Jamey! When you talk about a retailer (or distributor) committing to a certain quantity early in the production process, is there a contract involved in that, or just a verbal agreement? Are you at risk of them backing out after you produce a quantity based on their commitment? Do they pay a deposit up front or anything?
Right, usually it’s distributors we’re talking to before production begins. There’s a written commitment, but they rarely issue POs at that point. They don’t pay anything up front. It’s possible that a distributor could go back on their word, but if they do, they’ll lose the opportunity to commit to quantities in the future.
Thanks for the quick reply. I feel bad that it’s taken me a few days to see it. I really appreciate the information. I will be running my second Kickstarter campaign in October, and I really hope I can eventually transition into traditional distribution one day. At what point did distributors become interested in Stonemaier products? I imagine you had some significant success on Kickstarter before the serious distribution commitments began.
I know you get this a lot, but seriously, thank you for all of your content. I wouldn’t be where I am today without it.
Alex: We started at a time when there were much fewer games on the market. My first tabletop Kickstarter (Viticulture) delivered in 2013, and people rated it well on BGG, catching the attention of distributors right away. Aldo’s connections at Impressions made a big difference in those early days too.
I think also it is great strategy to go for. The deluxe version is for me well balanced
I believe it is a personal decision if you appreciate a game so much to have the upgrades. I understand the issue with the cube Color but I still prefer the current one against painted – I would May go for transparent acrylic once. The Lid well missed the point to keep things in place and the card holder nobody is using – but we love the game and design
Trays is tricky thing for expansion- I prefer to have the entire game in one box. Still looking unhappy on the Tapestry expansion box however we really love the game
I love Upgrade parts to board game but need to be balanced. E.g. for scythe I have Ressource upgrades, metal coins and mech, paint the minis but painted workers would be unbalanced for me. Wingspan wooden dice tower, trays but I try upgraded Ressourcen- I go back to cardboard it fells better and the focus should be on the nic cards and cardboard takes less space and focus besides easier to handle
Rainer: One thing you can do with Tapestry is simply remove the original insert and instead put the expansion insert inside the box. It means you’ll need to store the landmarks in a bag, but they’re sturdy. If you do that, everything will fit inside the original box.
I appreciate the quality of the Collector’s Edition, the components feel and look great, and the little extras like the foil cards and the numbered box make it special. The card holders do tip over a bit too easily.
The gold foil cards especially are great. Not everyone has an eye for that sort of detail, of course, but those who do appreciate it. A good friend of mine is a college-level graphic design instructor, and he raves about how beautiful the game is, the cards in particular.
As to the metal cubes, they feel really nice, and anodized looks better than paint. It won’t wear off either, I work in manufacturing and it’s hard to beat the durability of an anodized surface. The colours are close, though. I’ve played with two different friends who are colour blind, and to overcome cube placement we simply put everyone’s cubes in different areas of the institute space, there is plenty of real estate there.
I think this is a fantastic strategy if you have a large following. Thanks for sharing your lessons learned with us, Jamey!
I just wanted to chime in here and recommend smaller publishers avoid this strategy though. The reason being that you will likely have a minimum order quantity with your manufacturer of each version of the game, maybe even 1500 units or more. Smaller publishers will struggle to sell 1500 of a single version, let alone that many of each, so I recommend they stick to just one version. I just wanted to represent the little guy/gal here and hopefully prevent someone from making an expensive mistake. :)
That’s an excellent point, Brian. I’ll add a note to the post about how the quantity matters.
I really appreciate the flexibility that you offer by having different versions available of the game as well as upgrades for other games at reasonable prices, without the mindgames of Kickstarter FOMO, and with reasonable shipping rates to Australia. We preordered the Red Rising Collector’s edition and have been very happy with the components (we only play 2 or 3 players so separating the similar colour cubes has not been an issue and I like how classy they look) but I have also gradually blinged out my second hand copy of Scythe with upgraded components when you have them on sale. My family is very excited about the possibility of a Red Rising expansion as there are some key characters from the books who are mysteriously missing from the game! We’ve played nearly 40 games of Red Rising at this point and it’s become my teenage daughter’s No. 1 game of all time.
40 games?! Your comment made my day–thank you, Sarah!
My daughter says that if she went on a TV quiz show, her specialist subject would be ‘Red Rising Card Powers’! We play a lot of games but this is somehow the one that gets pulled off the shelf the most often.
I bought the Collector’s Edition because I thought the gold foil and the metal pieces would make the game more pleasing to look and touch, and in my opinion i’s true! I appreciate that you sell this only directly so that it can be sold at a very nice price! If you do this for other games I would definitely buy the Collector’s Edition again.
I’m also in the group that the coloring of the metal cubes didn’t bother me in the least. When playing it was always clear which color should a cube be or it took less than a second to find and I appreciate the looks of not being painted.
I can see that for you, printing 2 version of the expansion might be hard on many levels so I’m ok if you only sell the expansion on par with the Collector’s Edition, but as I bought that already, it would interesting to find what people that have the rental version think.
I’m happy that a project that was a challenge to develop and you put so much passion is selling as well!
Thanks Carlos! That was my feeling about the metal tokens as well. I prefer the look of unpainted metal tokens, though I can see now that clarity was probably more important.
While I am generally quite pleased with my collector’s edition, there are three things that I feel didn’t work as well as hoped.
First are the colors of the metal cubes (which on every play I have had players comment on them being difficult to discern, even in good lighting environments, specifically the blue/green and gold/not-quite-gold). Yes, we could discern them, but it usually took a double or triple look to confirm. When there are five or six people spread across a table, they don’t read well at a distance.
Second, the card trays needed to be a little longer to be useful. They can barely hold five cards; if you get more than that during the course of play (as you hopefully will or definitely will if you’re in the house that starts with one extra), not being able to actually see all of the cards on the stand defeats the purpose of having them. Not a big deal, but it means they stay in the box or get left unused on the table.
Lastly, the custom insert looks great, but isn’t as functional as hoped. Each time I open the box, the metal components have scattered to the four winds (which again reminds me that the cubes/ships colors are so close, as I need to resort them before a game).
I point these out only for future reference and possible refinement. I’m quite happy with the game and don’t regret getting the collector’s edition. The foil cards are fantastic and everyone I’ve played the game with has enjoyed it. If new versions of the metal cubes are in the works, that’s great news.
I really appreciate your feedback, and I agree that those are the core issues (for the insert it’s all about the lid).
I’m happy to hear that the meatl cubes are getting a correction. My only other critique is that the collectors edition insert is not compatible with vertical storage. Because of the scorepad placement the cubes just spill all over… Otherwise as a longtime red rising fan and avid hobby gamer I’m very happy with the game!
I agree, and it stems from the lid. If you turn it 90 degrees it’s better, but it’s still not perfect, and it should have been perfect. It won’t happen again! :)
I did get the collector’s edition and I did have a lot of complaints about the difficulty distinguishing the colors apart. I played it with one of my game groups, which was six of us. We played at a local watering hole and the lighting could have better. It did cause us to move the wrong pieces several times. A couple people in my group are huge Red Rising fans and it didn’t bother them as much as the rest of us. That’s my two cents.
Thanks for the feedback! We’re making painted versions of the metal cubes and ships to alleviate those concerns (available on our webstore in a few months).
I don‘t understand why this took the industry so long. There are standard and deluxe editions everywhere (Movies, music, videogames…) why not in boardgames? This should be standard, or at least offer deluxe upgrades to the game. I would always support this.
Marco: To a certain extend, the tabletop game industry has led this effort dating back to a decade ago on Kickstarter (though I know there were examples off of Kickstarter in other categories before then). I think the key is that many games simply don’t need a super deluxe version, and it does complicate things (like expansions). But I also think there are times–like with Red Rising–where it’s a good way to serve a variety of customers.
Yeah, the idea of “core” and “deluxe” pledges has been around for a while. As a backer, I love having the choice as to whether a particular game appeals enough to me to warrant spending some extra dollars – and as a soon-to-be creator on there, I want to support that choice for other people, though it definitely complicates things for the creator to do so.
The flipside of this trend is, I think, that it has led to more games offering deluxe versions and getting more expensive and overly produced – and in some cases, no longer bothering with more affordable “core” or non-deluxified versions. I worry that we could see more of the trend of not offering cheaper versions of games and just competing on super deluxified components – and thus, ironically, less choice for those with less dollars to spend.
I wish more companies would offer this flexibility. Big boxes are a particular ire (and I don’t mean empty vessels, but collections of base+expansions). I have a particular big box game I am very fond of, and it has all the expansions up to no. 5. Lo and behold, a Kickstarter for a new Big Box for the six expansions, plus other stuff, but wait, the new box has bigger tiles as well, so a convenient way to exclude separately printing any of the contents for existing owners, as it’s not compatible. The only way to “finish” the game now is to pay £250 for the new edition (75% of which I already own), or wait for second-hand copies of the extremely rare last expansion and others stuff to hit Ebay or the Geek market. I know commercial practicalities weigh in, but feels like a real middle finger to existing customers….
Will: I agree that offering flexible options (like upgrade packs and no gatekeeping of expansions/promos) is the best way to serve customers past and present.
I think the only way forward for an expansion to Red Rising would be to make one for both versions. I know that if I’d got the collector’s edition, I would be frustrated not to have the fancy cards across the whole game but I’m also aware that, as someone who has the standard version, I would also be frustrated if some of my gold cards looked different to the others. It’s not just about compatibility, but also uniformity which both aids the look of the game and also saves any confusion as to why some cards look different. For the same reason, I haven’t bought more content for my copy of Carcassonne, despite enjoying the game immensely, as they changed the art since I got my edition, with a couple of expansions, and it would bug me if things didn’t look uniform, even if they are technically compatible. I am confident (knowing my gamer friends as I do) that I wouldn’t be alone in this.
Right, if we only made one version of the expansion, it would have the gold foil cards. I’m curious if owners of the standard version would find that frustrating (I can see your point about uniformity, though they would be just as compatible as any other card).
Would be interesting to se a poll about this one.
I personally wouldn’t buy an expansion with the gold-foiled cards if I had a retail version. I would just be annoyed every time I play I didn’t buy the Delux-base game. Nor would I buy a non-gold-foiled expansion to my Delux-base game.
(Unless maybe if the expansion included replacemenet for matching base components.)
Worst case scenarion for me would be to buy (any) base-game and expansion in the same store at the same time and at home find out components differ, I would probably skip that vendor in the future.
Given your different target demographics, can you speculate on who might buy an expansion? I would think that expansions mostly sell to more serious gamers, who were more likely to buy the collector’s edition. Then again, if youve sold 100k retail and 20k collector’s editions by the time an expansion comes out, then the vast majority of existing users won’t have gold foil cards to start. Another thought is what is the unit cost of printing regular cards? Could you print both, and people can choose? Its a bit of a waste, but could appease everyone.
Kjell: Thanks for sharing. I think I feel the same way about my Collector’s Edition copy, but if I only had a standard version, I’m not sure I would be bothered by gold foil on my expansion cards. I’m curious to hear what people think if they have the standard version.
David: I think it depends on how big the Red Rising game gets (and if we even make an expansion versus another game in that world). Based on what we’ve seen so far, it will be on the level of Viticulture, but not Scythe or Wingspan. So I think a significant number of people who might be the expansion are hobby gamers…but I could be wrong about that, as there might be quite a few people who bought the game simply because they wanted 112 illustrations of the characters they love from the books.
I agree that it would be a waste to include two different sets of cards–with gold foil as the only difference–in the same expansion box.
I have heard of some issues with the Collector’s Edition that largely haven’t been problems for me. The color of the metal cubes was somewhat of an issue at first, but once you play a few times that mostly goes away (in my experience). I think people tend to overstate problems with “premium” items, which does make some sense. Same thing has come up with the new Terraforming Mars 3D components in their big box package, I think your comment that these items have to be perfect is valid, but different people may have different definitions of “perfect” and you can’t always know what those definitions will be. Another possibility may be, depending on the nature of the upgraded components, that you produce them as an upgrade pack and include the upgrade AND the standard components with the collector’s set. This might be a problem for something like sets of cards or a box insert, but less so with something like a set of metal cubes. These sorts of upgrades might be more appropriate for some games than others.
On the topic of the gold foil cards in particular, I honestly wouldn’t even notice the accents if I didn’t know they were there, particularly when they are sleeved, so in my mind that may be the least effective of the upgrades. That is purely opinion, of course.
At least to me on the Teraforming mars Big Box, the only one that I thought warrented comment was the small tuckbox not fitting the cards sleeved with the custom sleeves that were also available. While everything can fit in the big card box, just seemed like a glaring oversight.
Otherwise Agree with you, However I think LONG term, having the upgrade pack available separately allows for easier “reprinting” of collectors edition. This doesn’t work well with inserts, but for cubes, meeples etc, it does. No clue how many reprints Stonemaier has done of the Scythe Big Box, But with more and more companies doing Big Boxes, and other Long term Upgrades to games, can see individual sku or packs being the way to go, aiming at the upgrade group, instead of those initially buying collectors vs standard.