One Box to Rule Them All

16 March 2017 | 151 Comments

Never did I think box sizes would be the focus of my career. But this is the life of a game publisher! Here are some of the questions I’m asked most frequently, along with the factors I consider when deciding box size and a proposed solution for a frequent request about Scythe.

Will the Expansion Fit into the Original Game Box?

Whenever I announce a new expansion, this is the most commonly asked question. It seems that most gamers want everything to fit into a single box, which makes sense–we all have limits on shelf space and bag space (when we travel with games).

A few months ago I posted a poll on this subject: When you buy an expansion, if the contents fit into the original game box, how often do you throw away the expansion box?

The results (see image) indicate that 50% of people throw away the expansion box and 50% of people keep the expansion box. So there are two very different audiences to whom to cater.

Why Don’t Publishers Make the Original Box Big Enough for All Expansions?

I can’t speak for other publishers, but for Stonemaier Games, there are a number of factors in play:

  • Bigger boxes cost more to make. More cardboard and more ink result in a higher manufacturing cost. This may not seem like a big deal–it’s just cardboard and ink–but it adds up.
  • Bigger boxes cost more to ship. Freight shipping is where the costs can really increase. A standard pallet holds 48 cartons worth of content. Say, hypothetically, that you’re paying $1000 to ship that pallet from China to the US. If those cartons can hold 6 games each instead of 4 games each, that’s a difference in freight shipping costs of $3.47 per game (6 per carton) to $5.21 per game (4 per carton). To put that in perspective, if we print 30,000 copies of a game, that’s a $52,200 loss (unless we proportionally increase the MSRP).
  • The more extra space in a box, the more potential for damaged components. Sometimes a cardboard insert can be used to prevent some of this damage, but usually it only helps with side to side movement, not top to bottom.
  • The future is uncertain. I usually have no idea how big future expansions will be or how many we’ll make. The best I can do is design a box that works for the current game–that’s the only certainty.

Can You Publish a Big Empty Box or Put the Next Expansion in a Huge Box?

At first I was surprised when I started getting these questions. Do people really think I would publish a big empty box? Is it reasonable to ask me to put an 12x4x4-inch expansion in an 18x12x8-inch box?

But as I’ve learned over time, if I get the same request over and over, clearly I’m the one who’s missing something. That isn’t to say that publishing a big empty box or putting the next expansion in a huge box is feasible or responsible. Here are some of the considerations:

  • Transparency. I think it’s somewhat deceptive to the consumer when the contents of a box take up about 10% of the space. You’re just selling air at a premium. I want the exterior of the box to align with consumer expectations of the interior.
  • Practicality. It isn’t particularly practical to make and ship a big empty box (or a mostly empty box). There’s so much wasted space.
  • Scaleability. Distributors aren’t going to buy a big empty box from me, so I’d have to sell it directly to consumers (or find partners who will do that).
  • Marketability. I question whether people will actually pay for it? It’s one thing to say you want something (like on our future printing request form). It’s another thing to pay $12 + shipping for an empty box.
  • Durabilty. Courier tend to throw boxes around and stack stuff on top of them. No matter the padding, an empty box isn’t going to hold up as well as a full box.
  • Predictability. Say I make a box that’s big enough for all of the current components, expansions, and accessories for a game…and then tomorrow I think of a great idea for a new expansion? Then I have to make an even bigger box!

I’ve also been asked if I’d put a fancy insert in a big empty box–that way it’s not quite as empty. That’s intriguing, but again, I don’t know what the future holds, so how can the insert be properly designed? And wouldn’t it undercut all of the third-party vendors who have put significant time and effort into creating custom inserts?

Why Not Make a Big Box Edition of the Game That Includes Everything Ever?

I’m sure you’ve seen publishers use this method. I have the El Grande big box on my shelf, for example.

I think this is a great solution if a game has been out of print for several years. Otherwise you run into the following issues (you’re probably starting to see some patterns here):

  • Unless I’m sure that you’re done making expansions, the big box edition may end up not being big enough.
  • If I’m actively making the game, expansions, accessories, etc, I’m undercutting all of the vendors who’ve invested in those products.
  • For many games, a big-box edition would result in such a high MSRP that it significantly reduces the size of the consumer base.
  • You can’t put anything new in the box, because then you’re asking current owners of the game to buy a bunch of stuff they don’t want (or you have to package that content separately, diluting your SKUs and increasing the potential for confusion).

The Solution for Publishers

What does this mean for my fellow creators and publishers, particularly as you’re selecting the original box size? I don’t think there is a right answer, just a lot to think about. At the very least, you should be prepared to answer these questions with the answers that feel right to you.

Update: People have mentioned in the comments that other publishers have found solutions for this problem. There’s Smash Up’s “Big Geekly Box,” Red Dragon Inn’s 5th box, Alien Frontiers, and Champions of Midgaard (though I think some of those boxes include other content).

The Solution for Scythe

These questions are most frequently asked about Scythe. We packed a lot of stuff into Scythe’s original box (which is quite big), but we’ve since released the Invaders from Afar expansion, we’ll be announcing a new expansion in a few weeks, we’re brainstorming a third (and maybe final) expansion, and there are already a number of accessories for the game (both made by us and by third-party vendors).

We would want a box that can fit after-market inserts like those from Broken Token, Meeple Realty, and Insert Me Here. Also, it would be designed so that owners of the original Kickstarter editions (fancy box tops) could transfer their box tops seamlessly onto the big box.

I’m currently considering reaching out to a few of our accessory and third-party vendors (US and international) to see if they would be interested in sharing a print run of a big empty box for Scythe. I would configure the box (maybe using the original illustration or a different one) to be twice as deep as the original Scythe box but otherwise the same dimensions, which are designed to fit on a game shelf.

We would manufacture the box and ship it in bulk to those vendors. They would sell the box in their stores and on their websites along with (and/or bundled with) other Scythe-related products so consumers could pick and choose exactly what they want.

What do you think about this solution?

UPDATE: We’ve decided to make a “Legendary Box” for Scythe, the details for which are here.


I’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments about box sizes!

Leave a Comment

151 Comments on “One Box to Rule Them All

  1. This is one where I’ve not read all the comments, but thought I’d weigh in. One option that can work well is an expansion in a box that stacks satisfyingly with the original. For example, the Mysterium expansions are exactly half the width and the same length as the original game box, so two of them stack perfectly side by side on the original box. Its not a big thing, but it makes shelf management so much easier than for a game like Carcassone, which I love, but it seems like every single box they make is slightly bigger or smaller or wider or deeper so they never all stack together.

  2. Wow a lot of discussion.

    Bit late now, but I wish the Afar box had been a fraction smaller… so I could have fitted it inside the main box.

  3. Hopefully you dont keep Daedalus prod out of the loop, as I want them to be able to fit their solution in the big box too :)

  4. Hi! Hopefully, you dont leave Daedalus production out of the loop, so I can have their solution fit in the big box too :)

  5. I would love for you to release a big box version to store everything for Scythe. You mentioned in the article you would want to sell the box with extra components/features to entice players to buy the product. It would be awesome if you included all the promos released to date with maybe another special set just for the box. I was not able to participate in the KS at the time and now they are pretty expensive to obtain. In addition you could manufacturer a smaller board for 2 players skirmishes only. As it stands in a 2 player game the board is huge with majority of it being unused. I would like for the box to use magnetic folding clasp to open/shut. I think something like this was incorporated for the KS version. Some kind of sturdy carrying handle would make the game convenient to pack around.

  6. maybe this is too late to be seen, but maybe you could produce a “box extension’. a (mostly) flat peice of board that the end user could unfold and would slip down into the lower portion of the stock box and make the whole thing taller. the original top could then slide over it. it may need to be multi layered to make sure both are tight fits, but it shouldnt change the inner space of the box enough to mess with the use of foam inserts. you could have flaps for securing it to itself and the box, an most importantly, it would fold flat for transport and sale.

  7. Being new to Scythe and having bought the retail version of the game and it’s expansion only 2 days ago I’m wondering what insert to get, if any because the shipping costs to Europe for every insert is about the same price as the insert itself so spending up to 70€ for an insert that might become obsolete in Q4 is a game breaker for me atm. Or is there already an official confirmation that the current 3rd party inserts will still work in the big box?

    Since the big box solution might become available before expansion #3, does this mean Jamey already knows what the contents of the 3rd expansion will be and how/if they will fit?

    Really looking forward in upgrading my retail version of the game with a one solution that holds all components for all 3 expansions.

    I also would like to take this opportunity to thank Jamey for the excellent game he has created for us and the kindness in which he takes his customers concerns at heart.

    1. Gilles: I can confirm that all third-party inserts will definitely work for the big box. I do not yet know the components that will be in expansion #3, just that it will be bigger than the first 2 expansions.

      And thank you–that last sentence made me smile. :)

  8. My opinion on the Big Box is that for Scythe specifically I would buy it. This has to do with the game in question. Some games I am alright with having multiple boxes or not everything fitting into the base game box. With Scythe, however, it is a really big game. A large game like that, I want the simplest solution which is a single box for me to carry places.

    I think that if you do not yourself produce the storage solution, then you can work with or just give your approval for another company to do the work for it on the secondary market. I have a broken token box for my One Night Werewolf games that I like both for its usability and its looks and after the third Scythe Expansion comes out, if you have not made a box yourself, I may see about getting something from them or a similar company for all my Scythe stuff.

    I just hope that the secondary market, if they do make a box with inserts, make it appear thematically appropriate, like a war chest. Although a wood box will be much easier to make look thematic for a game set around WW1 era than a scifi game would be.

  9. I also like the idea of a LoWD style box and will most likely purchase whatever you decide, granted it’s distributed to Canadian retailers. Maybe the box could be filled with some limited “Scythe Swag” such as tee shirts covered in Jakub’s art and some stickers/patches to entice potential buyers as well as adding value to shipping costs (though maybe raising the overall price).
    Thanks for the open ear Jamey!

  10. GMT sells bigger boxes for certain games to fit expansions (most recently Labyrinth and Triumph & Tragedy). Maybe talk shop with them?

  11. GMT games will sell 3″ version of smaller game boxes to accommodate counter trays and/or expansions. I would definitely buy an “expanded” game box that would hold more items as the game grew via expansions and add-ons.


  12. As you’ve said, price is an issue for an empty box. I’d probably go as high as $15, maybe $20 if it was really nice. Once you throw shipping on top, it’s almost as much as an expansion. I’m one of those that needs everything, but I draw the line at some point.

  13. I offer a near $0 cost alternative to make room for future Scythe expansions. May they be many and great. Invaders plus the big painted meeples, six Automa decks, and all the add-on bits fill my Kickstarter box to its brim.

    Make a box liner. Use a sturdy piece of cardboard, or better, use foam core, as long as the inside perimeter of the bottom of your Scythe box, about 52″, less 4x the thickness of the liner material, and 1″ or more wider than the height of the original box. Carefully crease a cardboard liner to fit around the inside the box bottom. Use a T-square to make creases at exact right angles from the long dimension. Use strong tape to hold the “open” corner closed. For foam core cut it into four pieces and tape the inside of each corner.

    The box remains structurally sound, especially when full, and is still weight bearing if you don’t make the liner so tall that the box top when closed covers less than half of the original box bottom. Those concerned about visual appearance on their shelf may decide to prioritize future game purchases based on the illustrations on the sides of the box bottoms.

    Not that I won’t buy the new “big box” but this method works for now and for games where a larger box is not an option.


  14. Having one big box is definitely an ideal, but clean storage is a greater priority. For all the games I buy, if the components (plus expansion components) don’t fit into a pre-made box insert (like Viticulture and Tuscany, for example), I buy and use compartment organizer trays so I don’t have a million baggies driving me crazy. This works out the best and allows me to pare down to at least one box (example: for Imperial Settlers, after discarding the box insert, I have all the pieces in one tray and bagged each of the card decks; the base game plus all expansions fit in the original box cleanly).

    For Scythe, I’m using both the original and Invaders boxes. The component tray (which is a little tall; I’m shopping around for a shorter one of similar compartment #), miniature trays, power dials, Encounter/Factory decks, gameboard, and rules fit into the original box with a 3/8″ overflow. The player mats and remaining card decks all fit easily in the Invaders box. I have ordered the board extension and other promos, which will add to the original box’s overflow a little. New expansions will shuffle a few things around.

    My idea: have The Wind Gambit box be a big box, similar or slightly larger in size to the base game box, but that box comes with a new insert to house all the miniatures, including the airships and any miniatures planned for the 3rd expansion. It could end up being one large blister for the mechs and airships and a small blister for the characters, or one big blister that fits everything. The “extra, empty” space in that box would be enough for any other new components (like the Resolution deck). All the game components should then fit in the base game box and this one with ease, allowing the Invaders and 3rd Expansion boxes to be discarded/repurposed.

  15. I keep all my faction specific things in the Invaders box and all of the rest of the game in the original box. This way I can just pick out the factions we want to use for that game then put the rest aside while we’re playing. I know I’m in the minority here but since this expansion is a modular one I’d rather it be as small as possible so I could just keep it inside the original box separate from the original game materials. That way I only have two boxes (game and factions) on the shelf and when I pull them out the extra modules would be there but I wouldn’t have to sort them out if I just wanted to play the base game.

  16. […] Jamey says that they are looking to do a Q4 2017 release aligned with Essen with a price tag around  $30 MSRP. There will not be a Kickstarter or Pre-order campaign, so you’ll have to buy it the old fashioned way and if you have concerns about fitting everything into your box, Jamey is working on a “big empty box” solution. You can check it out and vote on it here: […]

  17. Not to sound silly, but could we perhaps try thinking outside of the box? LITERALLY.
    A good alternative, especialy as far as logistics go – would be to introduce a product you put on or over your existing boxes to – for example – snap them together in place.
    I’m quite cheap myself, so simple velctro sticers come in mind.
    I do get the whole ‘customer experience’ thing and I realise regular stickers just won’t cut it. But what about some sort of plastic rails to hold everything in place? Stick Scythe or SM logo on it with you will or introduce various colour options.
    I think this would not only be cheaper to make and ship, but will retain the visual and tactile appeal for the end consumer.

    I’m just streaming straight from my frontal lobe, so by all means feel free to bombard me with any structural integrity and aesthetic complaints.


  18. My favorite packaging for game expansions so far goes to Suburbia. Simple, shrink-wrapped punchboards! No box to throw away! With something like Scythe, that is a little more difficult because of the size and bulk of pieces. I really like the idea of a large expansion box that replaces the base box, but I also understand the frustration in selling a few components in a massive box. Though I did throw away my base box of Lords of Waterdeep in favor of its expansion box, which is big enough to hold everything. So unless the expansion box has some kind of utility for the game, I would prefer a stripped-down, easily recyclable/disposable package (maybe similar to FFG LCG packs or X-Wing/Armada ship boxes). (My husband does cut the Armada box art since the cardboard is so thin and pastes it on his Plano boxes.) If the expansion contents are tricky to fit in the base box, it is all the more fun to design our own foam core insert for the game! :) Best of luck brainstorming a solution!

  19. I love big boxes, and I love when everything fits in one. However, I wouldn’t spend money on an empty box that I could spend on another game. And I have lots of disposable income and spend lots of it on games each month. It’s just a matter of value for my money.

    Now, for certain types of games, I might make an exception – such as LCG card games. Arkham Horror LCG just demands a big box to hold all the little expansions. But for games that have medium-large expansions like Scythe, I will keep the original box – especially when the boxes are such works of art themselves.

    Thank you for being such a thoughtful designer and publisher. You’re a role model for the community!

  20. Just two quick ideas.
    The problem is space, so why not remove it.
    A) Make an inwards collapsible box so ships flat (specially designed inserts could ensure it stays sturdy after opening).
    B) Make the box require final construction by the customer (eg: include adhesive tabs and instructions to complete the construction of the box in a way that can’t be undone).
    Hopefully these prove interesting.

  21. Jamey, you’re amazing and this is brilliant. I’d love a deeper bx to be able to transfer my Scythe KS lid and still fit everything in. My expansion boxes go in the bin or get used to sort drawers. Thank you so much for considering this :)

  22. I’m one of those people who keep all boxes although I stopped saving my punchboards! As a rule I like everything together and if possible in same box. However there are times where I couldn’t fit everything into the base game box so I just put the rest into an expansion box and keep it with the base game box. It works for me just fine.

    As for the big box, while convenient, isn’t something I’d be dying for. I’d prefer more expansions or games from Stonemaier Games :)

  23. Hi Jamey, I didn’t read the whole thread, so maybe someone already talked about what I’m going to write…
    Matagot done some expanded box for Room 25 when publishing the Season 2 expansion : I had the base game from the first print in a small box and they decided to make a special big box for those who bought the first print to hold all of the game parts.
    There was some game material inside the box (seaons 2 components only) and a transparent plastic insert in full size that is able to hold the base game, the Season 2 expansion and the new Escape Room material (apart from the cardboard “code readers” that you have to disassemble).
    Maybe take a look at that.

  24. I liked CGE’s approach. The dungeon lords: happy anniversary box was superb. And the dungeon petz expansion was fully half the height of the bade game, yet it all squeezed into it!

  25. It does get to be a bother if you have to get 3 or 4 boxes out to play an expansion. But, the original box is a pretty good size already and it would be a little unwieldy if it was bigger. Plus, there is the consideration of the collector and connoisseur edition (I won’t want to throw mine away).

    Maybe, once you feel you’ve reached the end of the expansions there could be a bigger box just for the expansions. This would reduce it down to 2 boxes, but allow for the ease of just grabbing the original box to play a simple game with a few friends. And, as others have suggested, you could partner up with a third party to design the box and inserts to go in it.

  26. This might have been mentioned already, but I would make sure that it’s big enough for sleeves cards, too! For a game like Scythe that has so many cards, the sleeves’ thickness adds up.

  27. I like the idea, although price is important. Not sure I would replace my Collector’s Edition box, but i wish there was something like this for my ZombicideBP KS which is in 3 large boxes.

    What if the big box was a foldable design, that made use of the existing boxes owned to strengthen and separate sections? It’s all in the design, but you’d solve a lot of the problems mentioned… I have a few ideas of how it could be done.

  28. I don’t feel the options really expressed my point of view. Here’s how I feel: I wouldn’t buy just an empty box no matter what, because I would think… “ I really want to pay the price of a brand new game for a BOX?” That said, I certainly would buy a box that had a great organizer that fit Scythe & all the expansions. I would see the value in keeping my whole game together and having it nicely organized so that the components are well-managed. It’d be an upgrade to a beloved finished game that has all its expansions.

    So here’s my advice: wait until you know how many expansions there will be, then release the big box with the organizer for everything. I also think this strategy is the most fair to 3rd party insert manufacturers. Such a box will be a long way out and will give them plenty of time to profit off of their inserts. Plus, there’ll still be a market for those inserts even after the release: tons of people never buy expansions at all and wouldn’t want a gigantic box on their shelf. Not to mention the people that prefer to have separate boxes for base games & expansions (for resale value, easy transport, or just not to carry three/four expansions to a game night where you’ll be doing a teaching game).

    The most upsetting scenarios to me would either be (a) a big empty box of air or (b) a big box with an organizer that does not fit ALL the expansions.

    On a side note, I do actually prefer the big box concept to the ‘anniversary deluxe complete’ concept. I find those frustrating because as an existing owner of a game, you never need everything in those everything-under-the-sun editions, forcing you to sell the parts you do have… likely at the exact same time everyone else is selling them, because they’re also upgrading to the same product. Much more of a hassle than buying a box with organization.

  29. What about an insert that simply fits just inside the box, to extend the original box height? Essentially a hollow rectangle which fits the exact interior dimensions of the box bottom, which is taller than the current box, so it creates a situation wherein your box top and bottom are not flush, but there is better support for the top bottom and sides of the box, thus less crush risk for both the box and the components.

  30. I can’t really answer the survey because, well, it depends.
    Invaders is an expansion I definitely wished fitted in the original box. Why? Because I would never play without it. It’s just two additional factions. Those factions are always going to be in as options for players even if they never get picked. There’s no circumstance where I grab the Scythe box and not the Invaders one. Even with just three players, someone might want one of the other factions.

    That, to me, is distinct from expansions that add new ways to play. Those can go in their own box. I grab that box if I want to play with those new elements. For instance Elder Sign, I have the base game and first expansion in one box, but the newer “scenario” expansions in another. Sort of. The scenario expansions also add some new characters and generic items, which get mixed into the base game box, as we never play without those.

    Secondly, there’s a trade off between a nice functional insert and box space. Someone already mentioned Mechs vs Minions, and yes it’s a giant box, but it’ll hold tons of future expansions… if you throw out the insert (and frankly while the insert is good for somethings, it actually easier to grab the minions if they’re all in one big bag). Scythe isn’t quite at that level, the box is pretty packed regardless, but there’s a good chance I’ll throw out the plastic that holds the minis to fit more stuff in. Generally I’ll choose ease of storage over ease of setup. (Though it’s rarely a choice: there are few more efficient ways to setup than everything in labelled plastic bags).

    1. Thanks for your thoughts, Dean! Though Invaders does fit into the original Scythe box (mine fits into my Art Connoisseur Collector’s Edition). It’s a tight fit, but it fits. :)

    2. Quote: “there are few more efficient ways to setup than everything in labelled plastic bags”.
      Really? I get a hibby shibby just from reading that! Out of respect for the miniatures, you should never ever store them in plastic bags. Most definately not when they’re painted!
      As a kid, I played a lot of ‘Hero Quest’ and until today, I find it a real bummer that the candles on my altar are broken off because of bad storage: all piled up in the box. No matter how much care I took of this game, some things got broken. No plastic bag is going to prevent that.
      “labelled plastic bags” uurghhll…..

  31. Greater Than Games’s KS campaign last year for OblivAeon, offered a custom storage box backers can pledge for to store every single card in Sentinels of the Multiverse. Of course, they do not face some of the issues you listed above, OblivAeon being the final expansion ever for their SotM game. As you can imagine, the box was extremely popular.

    The recently-ended KS campaign for Raiders of the North Sea’s new expansions also offered deluxe editions which comes with storage solutions for the core game + expansions.

    As someone who loves organised game boxes, it pleases me whenever such options are offered.

    IMO such storage options are best offered when part of a preorder campaign, as a paid add-on. Being a love-it-or-hate-it product, having a pre-order campaign means the publisher can decide exactly how many to produce. Being an add-on means those who hate it can opt out.

    I will leave my two cents on my bar tab.

    1. Aldrin: I agree that the OblivAeon method (big box that has 100% certainty that it can hold everything because it caps off the end of the series and is available) is very smart. :) And I like your observation about it being tied to a pre-order to help inform production quantities.

  32. I like the approach A.J. Porfirio has taken with Hostage Negotiator. Rather than publishing a big empty box on the first round to leave space for expansions, he left space for the base game in the expansion box…

    1) Buy a bunch of Gloomhaven boxes
    2) Dump out all the stuff
    3) Re-skin with fantastic Scythe art
    4) Ship

    Cheap and easy, right? You’re welcome. ;)

  34. Check the add-on box for Fleet + Arctic Bounty. Also, quality foam pads and/or cardboard chasms in the original box for AAA games that are likely to receive expansions are the way to go. And don’t think of this just in terms of box volume but likelyhood of different types of future components; an extra twelve square inches of space splayed across the top of the box is fine if your most likely expansion will be an add-on or replacement game board. If cards and minis are likely to be featured in expansions, a foam brick or chasm in the “heart” of the box is what you’ll want. You can design with this in mind, so perhaps have a default: I’m going to have a NxY foam brick in each box and I know that I can design any future expansion within the parameters of filling that space. I’d give less consideration to an additional game board, as you can just have the box top fit less than flush with the bottom.

  35. Jamey, no matter what you go with, some people are going to be angry. That old adage “You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time” is somewhat skewed in the modern age (where “all of the people” is far larger than it was before). Reality is that you can please a larger percentage of people with some solutions than you can with other solutions, and while the pleased people will be relatively quiet, the un-pleased will be the loudest voices that will cut the deepest.

    The fact that you’re putting considerable thought into this should be obvious to all (that read this blog at least).

    One concern I have is that with the idea of a deeper box to accommodate existing inserts is that it somewhat limits what you can do for expansions – you’re now saying that you can only create 1-2 expansions that fit within a 2″ gap of the same size (example), and whatever you create will have to reside on top of existing solutions (potentially damaging existing solutions / new content), and/or will have to reside in their own expansion box (which will need its own storage solutions). It does open options for future print runs of the base game (“Big Scythey Box Edition”)

    Now, you can do a lot with removable foam for storage (similar to what mini collectors use – remove “chunks” for expansion storage, this foam would sit on top and protect new AND old from damage, plus filling the space very accurately), or molded plastic (not as much protection as you’ll get heavier points but save substantially on costs), or wooden inserts (pricier, but I see it as an aftermarket option), but people are undoubtedly going to be annoyed.

    You’re really in a “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation. Personally, I’m good with whatever, the game play is the real attraction for me. It’s really the “Stonemaier” touch that shows the thought and attention going into details that normally wouldn’t “that big a deal” for many companies. I know the final solution will be well thought out, and I’m curious how it’ll all unfold as time progresses.

    Good luck!

    1. Trevor: Thanks for sharing the foam idea! I really like that as a way of ensuring that stuff doesn’t float around in the box too much which we’re filling it up with more expansions over time.

  36. Would you consider also partnering with Daedalus Productions? They have my favorite version of the insert for Scythe.

        1. I second this. I find their insert superior because it speeds up set-up so much & the visual design of it fits so well with the look of the game. If they could design a complete big box insert, that would be a real must-buy for me.

  37. For me, Scythe is a different animal. It is the only game I have ever purchased all the extras that I could so with Scythe, yes, I would purchase a bigger box to fit everything I have for it and all future expansions. That being said, it is the only game I have, that I would do that with. Any other game, yes I try and fit the expansions all in one box, but if I can’t, not a big deal to me. I can have them sitting on the shelf together.

  38. One thing that I haven’t seen touched on. I don’t drive a car, so I carry games to game days with a mix of walking and public transport. Scythe is heavy enough that I don’t want to add a wooden insert to the box and I would possibly balk at a big box solution, depending on the weight of the components added in expansions. I’d also love to see a partnership with a plastic insert maker (like Zenbins) if possible, adding an insert without adding much weight would be awesome.

    Another point to note with expansions and where to store them. Is the expansion something that I will always play with (like Invaders from Afar)? In that case I’d like to keep it in the same box as the base game. Is it an expansion that will only be used sometimes (for example an expansion that converts Scythe to a coop game – factions need to team up in a War of the Worlds style scenario)? In that case I’d prefer to keep it in a separate box.

  39. Jamey, if you do it well I think you would find a lot of people would go for this extended box.

    The game has high ranking on BGG and is considered a bit of a gem amongst my collection and play group, I have ‘pimped’ the game as much as possible and got a wooden insert, this mentality means I would probably go for a bigger box solution if the price was not too steep.

    Making a deeper bottom half of a box would mean i could still transfer the current insert and contents and still allow for a ‘topper’ insert for future expansions whilst still using my collectors edition lid. This sounds like a very elegant solution and it’s refreshing to hear such considerations from a game designer. Kudos.

    Of course, it depends on the success of the expansion and whether it bloats the game. Maybe the game is fine as it is? Is the expansion going to be a campaign/legacy style expansion?….I might not be interested in that, but we shall see!

  40. I would not buy it for scythe because it own the collectors edition and don’t want to lose the number :) but in general I like big boxes. I have “empty boxes” for smash up and of course the munchkin box and suitcase

    1. Jonas: Fortunately, you could still use your original box top, as the box top on the big empty box would be the exact same size (the box bottom would be dual layered, kind of like the Lords of Waterdeep box).

  41. The Scythe box is big enough (and with TBT insert heavy enough) by itself, I don’t think I could carry a box double its size to game night. I have many games that could use a bigger box but I don’t think Scythe is one of them.

    I’d rather have one of the expansions have a box that would fit all the upcoming expansion stuff. Or have the expansion boxes be a size that would stack neatly with the base game, like Viticulture and Tuscany EE.

  42. Jamey, I recently asked you about the expansion (just the other day), so I’m glad to see you addressing this here. A bigger box would be cool. Personally, I’ve hesitated to get either cool insert from Broken Token or Meeple Realty…partially because I had trouble deciding which one, and because I wondered about future expansions making them semi-obsolete.

    It is clear to me you care about your customers and your relationship with us, while also trying to stay true to your game, and take care of yourself as a businessman. Much respect for engaging with us all, hashing it out, and trying to make the best decision. I, for one, trust you and look forward to hearing about the expansion(s) and whatever decision you make regarding a bigger box (which, yes I will likely get).

  43. Currently, I keep the vast majority of my expansions in the original box. That was impossible with Smash Up and Dominion, and I absolutely adore the BGB. I actually have two. One contains Smash Up (and most of its expansions) and Dominion (with a few expansions). The other contains many various smaller games, some deck based, others not. However, I did back the BIT Box campaign and will shortly (hopefully) be working to fit most of my games into that storage solution. I do currently have ALL of my original game boxes and expansion boxes, most are in the garage. After I get all those games in the BIT Boxes, I’ll have the hard decision of whether I want to keep our get rid of the empty boxes. :(

  44. I would never buy an empty box for any game ever. Seeing these comments I realize I am in the minority, but I just don’t see how a box that can contain everything improves your gaming experience. I will pimp my games, make/buy custom inserts, and I WOULD buy a Big Box Edition that has everything released if I don’t own the game already. But not an empty box. It’s just a box. And lots of air.

  45. I think a game box should be as small as possible with a nice insert that fits everything beautifully. A large game that minimizes its impact on shelf space is a thing of beauty.

    From what I understand, a large effect of the release of an expansion is increased sales of the base game, and as more people purchase the base game they will all want small, tight packaging.

    I think it’s safe to assume that in the game community most people are aware that getting an expansion means needing room to store another box, whether or not they can fit everything together. If a person ever wants to trade or sell their game, they usually need all the packaging.

    According to your numbers regarding shipping from China, smaller packaging can ultimately make way for a better quality product. Want linen finish cards? Decrease the box size by 1 square inch.

    The best example I’ve seen of a great expansion box is Pandemic: On the Brink. The worst examples of boxes are anything by Queen games.

    1. I don’t know how to edit. But one last cost that wasn’t considered is inventory holding per unit cost. It doesn’t matter how much the unit weighs, that cost is dependent kn how big the item is and how many of the item are being held (I believe economy of scale applies in this case). If you just make a bunch of big boxes with nothing in them your inventory costs will increase substantially and kill your margins.

  46. I have the Kickstarter version, all the metal coins (including $2 and $50), the board extension, the IfA expansion, all 7 combat dials, and the wooden encounter and expansion tokens.

    It’s currently all in the MeepleRealty insert, tucked neatly in the original box.

    I absolutely love the overall quality of production and presentation. Stonemaier Games’ attention to detail, and Jamey’s relentless focus on quality throughout the Kickstarter campaign have far exceeded expectations and made me an ardent fan.


    There are already several solutions that hold the base game and first expansion.
    My idea is to make boxes for the 2nd and 3rd expansions which are “stackable” with the original box.

    Instead of making an all-new double-height box which holds everything, make the expansion boxes the same length and width as the original game box, but much less deep (like quarter-height). Put a raised lip around the outside edge, perhaps.

    Design them so that they stack with the original box. I don’t know if that means below it (which means they’d have to be super sturdy). Or above the lid (which would probably be easiest, but would sadly obscure the fancy lid). Or maybe somehow between the lid and the original box?

    On future reprints of the first expansion, put it in such a stackable box as well.

    This way you aren’t distributing an empty (or mostly empty) box.
    If someone lacks one or more of the expansions, they’re not hauling around empty space, they just stack whatever expansion boxes they have on the base game and only carry with them the parts they’re going to play with.


    I bet there’s all kinds of neat ideas like using the recessed expansion box lid as a tray during game play, or possibly even additional territory. Like a floating island, perhaps.

  47. The best idea I have heard so far is a deeper box with the original footprint for people that have the inserts already, but really… I think the only reason this is being discussed is because of Jamey’s double-dominant customer service genes. As an owner of a broken token insert and how nicely that fits in the original box, I already know that when more expansions drop for scythe, I will end up with one main box and another box for an expansion or two (down the road) – I don’t have any of the numbers on manufacturing and shipping empty boxes, but I imagine they will be similar to SM game trays in that shipping became prohibitively expensive for many (unless you bought a really huge quantity).

    It is certainly an interesting problem to have, especially for SM and scythe in that Jamey is has so freely vector-ed his own games popularity into 3P items (tokens, inserts, Bower, etc) but even as I naysay the “responsibility” Jamey takes on himself to solve this “problem” he might just be walking a path that is not yet explored and could end up with enough demand to justify the printing of extra large boxes that fit the inserts, the base games, and all expansions into one really great looking box.

    A pretty big box though, and one that would likely math out to him breaking even or losing some money in order to see it to fruition.

    This comment is probably not even that helpful, seeing as how I’m sitting here arguing myself into and out of multiple scenarios. If there were a new box solution that fit my already purchased insert and any upcoming expansions, I would very likely purchase and ship to myself, and I would probably peg my ceiling at $20 for such an item, including shipping. But I will also continue to enjoy Scythe and any expansions that are designed for it without a big box, and would have no heartburn at all bringing my original retail Scythe box with insert and another box with expansions to a gaming event or gathering around my own table.

  48. So what about *keeping the box size the same*, and just re-releasing every component from the game and every expansion at half scale!? (joking…)

    I generally just pack up the game box with as many expansions that fit (or the one I will be playing that night) and keep the others separate. For Scythe we would be talking about a huge box anyway, so splitting across expansion boxes can actually assist with storage. And I king of enjoy the unpacking, repacking, sorting, splitting – getting to interact with the game when not playing the game?? ;)
    (As I type this, the completionist in me is having minor conniptions: “just take the big box you fool!”…)

    A pet hate is the air already shipped with oversized boxes. I would prefer base games and expansion boxes to fit just what they need to. (Perhaps that is also because I am on online retailer. Shipping a 1.5kg game in a 5kg Courier bag always feels inefficient and, let’s face it, environmentally wasteful)

    If nothing else, this is a great ready made market research panel for the accessory manufacturers :)

  49. The Champions of Midgard expansions that just funded on kickstarter had an option for a new box that fit everything. I always try to make games fit into a single box where possible, so the idea of a new box is great… that is unless you just paid $50 for a wooden insert for that game and now fear it will be obsolete.

  50. Unless Broken token can make an addition to compliment the already-existing insert that would fit this new box, I’d pass.

  51. I’m the type that puts all the expansions into the main box (or possibly into an expansion box if same size or bigger). Funny enough, I store all the unused inserts (either due to not fitting sleeves or taking too much space to store expansions or both) and boxes in some empty boxes! Haha.

    I would probably buy the box (I did for Alien Frontiers). I find that for games with a custom insert, the abundance of air isn’t as noticeable. Although now that I think about it, I’ve paid a premium for an insert I’m not using (e.g. 7 Wonders). But I prefer to have as few boxes as possible because of limited shelve space and easier to transport out (otherwise the expansion is less likely to get played). In this case, Scythe has no insert so you can’t get any more volume to store stuff. Oh well.

    One other caveat of the big box solution is that it can get heavy and if too much bigger than the original box (e.g. Dominion or Carcassonne), I’m less likely to bring it out because it’s too big.

    If only there was some way to put a sturdy enough inner layer (like a wooden rectangle that fits just inside the bottom and is sturdy enough to prop up the lid) and some way to keep the kid closed afterwards to keep the inside safe. It’d be nice and you could reuse the original box and hold more things, but it’s not as sturdy unfortunately.

  52. red dragon inn 5 is a very large box that holds all the other exp and base game….again; it’s pretty much just cards, but there are other examples out there of this; not just aeg/smash up.

  53. love this idea….pls work w/those you mentioned like broken token and meeple realty though. i’d hate to buy a box and have this fancy insert go unused.

    i actually think it’d be brilliant if publishers reached out those guys for “official” fancy deluxe etc inserts.

    i think you’d be surprised how many people would pay $40+ extra for even a retail copy of the game if it included a 3rd party insert.

    1. A lot of the concern with that though is manufacturing and shipping IMO. A lot of Jamie’s stuff basically comes from Panda (Shanghai, China) through a port and to a distributor, directly into shipping boxes, and to us. There’s no point, unless Meeple Realty or Broken Token were to literally ship all of their product to China (and their shipping within the contintental US is expensive enough as is, IMO,) at which the inserts could be included in the game box already.

      I would, however, love to see a kickstarter partner with one of these companies to manufacture and deliver inserts and a game “together,” as it were, with each company producing and shipping their part individually. Backers would have to be understanding of the extra shipping costs involved though. I just know that I’d rather pay the “full price” of the game up front, as it were, (looking at you, Gloomhaven,) when it comes to having all the little bits organized in the box.

  54. Also, dealbreaker for me on the upgrade box is if it’s not the same quality that Panda gives to your other boxes. I love the sexy super-thick cardboard and more “rounded” edges of Panda, not to mention the weight. Box quality is literally the ONE disappointment I have with Gloomhaven.

    Also (personally,) I think I’d like to see an alternative art piece on the front of the new box. Still recognizably Scythe, but something unique, because I’m an art person, and our china cabinet displays all our games that have the best art & minis. (Scythe is squarely in the middle, I might add.) This would also help people to feel like they’re getting something “new” or “different” for their money, rather than just spending it on “this same game” again. (Which is how I felt about Smash Up’s BGB.)

    1. toss some more promo cards in there….the big geeky box included a new faction. red dragon inn has this too….their 5th expansion is more expensive and is a very large box to hold everything.

  55. I think what is important with the AEG Smash Up box is that it is a high quality box, with a lower cost ($10 I think?) and it came with a an exclusive faction and nice foam bricks to help organize.

    If you were to sell a sturdy, high quality box—with an exclusive deck of cards, or character, or some kinda of minor addition to the game, people will be more likely to buy it —not only for its function but for its addition to the gameplay.

    Ive specifically not purchased the Broken Token insert for fear that there will be expansions for Scythe that won’t fit in it. It would really hurt to spend $40 on an accessory for a game that becomes opposite if I buy more stuff for that game…

    My specific recommendation would be the double deep box that you already suggested with custom “plano” plastic type containers that would make setting up the game quicker. Each container would have a space for all the components each faction needs. And then maybe toss in a few promo cards or alternate art/material pieces.

    Thanks for even thinking to do something like this Jamey. Keep up the great work!

  56. I’m definitely in the camp of “will buy a storage box” because I really dislike having my games split between boxes, but I also really want to use the official boxes (collection and aesthetic purposes).

    However, I was also a playtester for Scythe and got a kickstarter collector’s version, so my really cool box with my name on it and a collector’s number would be a shame to simply toss into storage somewhere. It wouldn’t stop me from buying the box (the need to consolidate the game is greater than the desire to continue being able to look some things printed on the original box), but for that reason I chose both “I would buy the box” and “the idea should be refined”.

    Unfortunately, I’m not very helpful because I don’t have any immediate suggestions for how to improve the idea from that perspective! It’s something I’ll ponder for a while, though…

  57. I would consider a big box for Scythe & future expansions. I just bought/built the Broken Token organizer so that I could have the Scythe box ready to go and make setup (and more importantly) cleanup easier. I’ve also purchased the BGB for Smash Up.

    I’d have to consider what I’d do with the BT organizer for Scythe if/when a big box comes out. I’d probably jump all over a storage solution that addressed the forthcoming expansions and let me have two Scythe boxes.

  58. I can see both sides of the argument. I too enjoy having everything in one box and I custom build storage solutions that allow me to do that while decreasing setup time. If you were to offer such an official thing, I would likely buy it, in part because I am an enthusiast of Scythe and of SM Games more broadly.

    There’s an old episode of the West Wing where they talk about a flag-burning amendment. A pollster cites a number where some overwhelming majority would be for such a thing, but in the denouement they find out that people don’t actually care enough about the issue that it would change their vote.

    I think that these boxes represent something similar. Games like Scythe appeal to a certain kind of hobbyist who loves a beautiful single-box storage solution, but at the same time, *not* having one wouldn’t ever stop them from actually buying expansions. At that point, to what benefit of the company is meeting that need? Extra expense, lower profit margins, to supply a thing that people want but will get along perfectly fine without?

    This discussion even ignores the fact that the existing Scythe box IS big enough to hold the full game and a few expansions, just not prettily, e.g. in a Broken Token or Meeple Realty wooden insert. At some level people have to make the decision between having something pretty or having everything in one box, and I don’t think it’s incumbent upon you solve their own internal dilemma.

    I think the argument for a “big box” gets stronger if, 5-6 years from now, there are a half-dozen or more Scythe expansions, or if everything was packed so tightly in the original box that fitting everything in is unreasonable even if packed less-prettily. At this point, given what you’ve written above, I don’t see how it makes sense.

    1. For what it’s worth, my Scythe box doesn’t have an insert aside from the miniatures inserts for the base game and expansion, and is filled to the brim. And I don’t have the expansion board, metal coins, realistic resources, or card sleeves. Knowing what’s coming in expansion #2, there’s no way in my mind of storing everything in the base Scythe box without significant risk of damage to the miniatures.

  59. I really love the “same size but deeper” idea, because I’d really hate to throw away my newly bought BT insert. I just hope, BT (or MR or whomever else makes inserts for Scythe) will then release an “insert expansion” which would fill up the second half of the box with room for the expansion parts :)

    1. I think they could probably make that work – I believe BT at least did something similar with Lords of Waterdeep when they updated their insert to include Skullport content (though in that case it all remained in the same-sized box) – there was a much cheaper “upgrade kit” with just the pieces changed from the original insert to the combined one.

  60. Instead of just selling an empty box, an option could be to partner with a company, like Meeple Realty or The Broken Token to create an insert for everything that can only be bought when someone purchases the big box. This way, it wouldn’t be empty and it would give more incentive. Also, feel free to throw some promos into every box that are only available by buying the box. :)

    1. Also, I put all of my expansions into one box if possibly, however, I typically don’t throw away my expansions boxes.

    2. Yeah, I could never imagine buying an empty box the way that the article describes, knowing that it would be left up to me to organize the contents of the box. The Scythe box is big as it is, trying to organize components in a box twice that size sounds like a nightmare. The only conceivable solution in my eyes is a big box with an included organizer solution, be it from Stonemaier or a third party. Similar to what Smash Up, Red Dragon Inn, and the forthcoming Sentinels of the Multiverse expansion did.

  61. Specifically for Scythe, the Collector’s and Art Connoisseur’s Editions are all numbered for the collectors. Please convince me why throw away a box like this (that had the silver letters engraved on as a stretch goal).

    That said, I belong to the other 50% :)

    1. I have an idea for that. The new box’s walls shall be double cardboard in width, but only the bottom half, the top half only single cardboard width, so when you put the lid on (which would also have single cardboard width), the “gap” between the lid and the bottom would be a horizontal line around the middle of the box. This way Collector’s Edition backers (such as myself) could use the original (numbered) lid on the new box!

        1. I do like this idea (and similar idea from FB of a middle bit so both original bottom and original top fit to make a taller box.

          Awesome double of new box AND original not sitting empty. Of course, such a cardboard ring would be flimsy and perhaps not travel well… then again might flatten down more simply than an empty box….

        2. Based on what I’ve read from other comments, the idea of releasing a bottom boxthat is the same width and length but has more height, where the normal lids fit onto it both open and closed (similar to the style of lords of waterdeep, but with slightly improved functionality) you might be on to something. Though it is still technically a half empty box.

          I work at a game retailer, and I can only think of 1 game at the moment that sold an empty box. It was returned 70% of the time it was bought because the consumer thought it was the whole game and we had errored the price, then they were displeased that it was just a storage box… :(

          Looking forward to the decision process here :)

      1. not throwing water on anyones idea at all, just a personal observation that LoW box is one of the more annoying ones I have because the bottom doesnt fit into the top, it actually eats up double footprint during play.

  62. I love everything in one organized box which is why I bought the broken token insert…. So, if the new empty box worked with their insert (just a deeper box I think would) and they made an addition to their insert to add the new expansion, then I’d be interested in a big box.. Otherwise I’d probably still keep the expansion in a separate box.

    1. Todd: Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn’t want to invalidate purchases people have already made, and Broken Token is one of the partners I would approach with this idea.

      1. I’m with Todd on this one 100% Jamey. The Broken Token insert wasn’t cheap and I’d hate for it to become unusable. As a matter of fact, I might second guess whether I need anymore expansions of Scythe if it means a second box or trashing my insert. By the way, great article Jamey. Always refreshing to hear you talk candidly about the industry.

        1. Thanks George! Just in case it’s not clear from the entry and my other comments about this, the bigger box would be, well, bigger than the original box, so all existing third-party inserts would fit inside of it.

      2. Thanks for the thought on this matter! Gives me a sigh of relief that at least you think of the existing inserts.

  63. A similar situation has arisen with Monikers. The standard game came with a box large enough for one expansion, but now there are two expansions (with a third on its way via kickstarter). They are saying they may have a future kickstarter for a box big enough for all expansions, but I would be hesitant to make such a purchase.

    I’d rather use the expansion box (or a shoe box) to store everything if it didn’t fit into the base box then buy a box just for the sake of storage.

    I do, however, keep expansion boxes even after I fit their components into the base box (if I can). Those collect dust in the closet. <.<

  64. I think the idea of the “big empty box” is fine when you know what the final product count is going to be. For example if each Scythe expansion adds two new factions and their components then you can advertise the box as a “complete” storage solution. I currently remove the contents of expansions and put them with the base game. When we sit down to play Scythe I don’t want to fetch 3-4 boxes off the shelf then mix up all the parts and sort them back out when the game is over. I want to grab the box for “Scythe” and open it up and have everything I need. So in the end I would desire a single box that holds all of the Scythe game components, if you can’t make that box right now I would happily wait!

    1. Thanks Brad. I think this is a really important point for me to remember: “When we sit down to play Scythe I don’t want to fetch 3-4 boxes off the shelf then mix up all the parts and sort them back out when the game is over. I want to grab the box for “Scythe” and open it up and have everything I need.”

      1. This is exactly how I feel. I travel with my games a lot and I’ve been taking Scythe everywhere and it’s a hassle taking two boxes now. Taking 3 when Wind Gambit comes out isn’t appealing at all-and adds a ton of time to set up and tear down when having to re-sort everything. Trying to explain to six other people where to put what is a circus during tear down. I held off on any inserts because a) I hoped there might be more expansions and b) I was hoping for a big empty box to get it all in one! I own everything I could get my hands on for Scythe post Kickstarter, except an insert. I’ll shell out the cash in a heart beat for a big box, and if it can handle the current inserts on the market I’ll get those too to streamline set up and take down. This is literally the best game I’ve ever played and I’m hopelessly addicted.

        Seriously considering Viticulture, though I’m not sure how close it is to Scythe, and eagerly awaiting the green light to preorder Charterstone from my local game shop.

    2. I like and agree with this answer. Second expansion comes in “invaders” size box…then third and final expansion comes in box big enough for all known components. I have room enough for more at this point and don’t even have a special insert. Not knowing what’s coming in this next expansion, I think it’s possible to best everything in the current box anyway. Of course, only you would know what’s coming next. But I really love the idea of “the expansion in a hold everything sized box.” You don’t put that option in the poll.

  65. Instead of shipping an empty box, what about a folded box that the end consumer just needs to unfold and tape/glue. Would be a lot easier to ship.

      1. Well…maybe if it’s a flat-pak, glue-up, deluxe wooden box. Oooh, and with inlay marquetry! Yeah! Make it happen :-)

  66. I think every game publishers ask themselves these questions at some point, so great post Jamey!

    To expand on this question, you also have to ask yourself… insert or no insert? For our game it was simply a matter of space — we filled the box so much that there wasn’t any room left for anything, be it an expansion or inserts. Everything goes in bags, so depending on the actual content of an expansion, those bags might just fill up with more stuff, although wiggle room is still limited.

    It’s all a question of expectations, and as you said, some consumers could feel betrayed if they buy a (mostly) empty box, and even though there is the promise of more to come, that still means more money to spend from them in the future, which may or may not be an issue.

    In any case, I think you have to do what feels right to you. Can you provide a box that’s full enough, but that can still, with some tinkering, fit an expansion? Well that’s great! 7 Wonders comes to mind here, we simply removed the insert and fit the expansions inside without much problem. And yet, the original version still has enough included in the box to warrant the price.

    If you can’t make some room, if your box is absolutely full, well at least you can say you sell a product that’s worth every square inch of its interior space! ;)

    1. Sphere: I agree, the insert plays a big role in the decision. I had the same experience with the Kickstarter versions of Scythe–there simply wasn’t room for anything else in the box, and we couldn’t make the box any bigger without reducing the per-carton quantity from 4 to 3.

  67. I bought the Smash Up BGB for my son, and he loves it. Might make more sense for a deck-based game though.

    When your expansions are in another box, they don’t get played as often. I always try and put stuff in the same box. But then I keep the expansion box anyway because I’m crazy…

  68. None of the options above fit me, I want:
    * Everything to fit into one box, AND
    * I won’t ever throw away expansion boxes, AND
    * I would want a new big empty box to put everything into, AND
    * I won’t actually be prepared to buy that big empty box, AND
    * even if I did buy it I’d still keep all the other boxes even if they’re empty.

    Please don’t make decisions based on me :D Unless of course that decision is to not cater to me because even I don’t really know what I want?

      1. No, I’d just keep all the original boxes empty, sitting on a shelf somewhere judging me.

        Maybe when I die I can be cut up and distributed between all the empty boxes so they finally serve a purpose and in some small way I can take them with me.

        1. Haha I have the same thing. A part of my shelf is just full of empty expansion boxes :D Your idea seems very cool. I’ll just write up a last will quickly… :)

      2. That actually doesn’t sound bad, I’m probably in the same boat as Stephen, but for your proposal Jamey I’m not sure I would then want to have to dig through half a dozen boxes and have them spread out all over the place whilst staring up a game such as Scythe that takes up the whole table…

      3. This actually appeals to me. Keeping the expansions separate for when you don’t want to use them is a thing, but then not having to pull 3-4 separate boxes off a shelf to play one game is also a thing. It also just looks nicer on the shelf if you ask me (especially when the darn box sizes don’t line up!), why shelf presence is important I don’t know, it just is, don’t judge! Pulling this off without making a monstrosity that no longer fits on a shelf would be impressive.

        I am an empty box keeper – because I never know when I’ll change my mind about how I want to store a particular game – or when the original box will no longer be sufficient for all the expansions.

  69. Didn’t AEG basically do the Big Empty Box concept for Smash Up? I’m fine with it, and we’ll definitely buy/back it for Scythe, but also my .02 is I’d like to see an option for a bit of organization with it.

      1. I think that of all the games I’ve purchased to date, I have the most appreciation for what Riot Games did in Mechs vs. Minions. I feel I paid $75 for a very high quality product that had a very well made insert specifically designed and included with the game and shipped to me for very reasonable price. I WANT to buy another game from them. If I had my way, every game would come to me exactly like that. I don’t know if Riot Games has expansions in mind, and if they do, I don’t expect there will be any way in the world it will fit in the box I have now. However, if they deliver a similar quality product in a complete package like that, I won’t be upset if it has to sit on top of or next to the original game. Additionally, if they decide to sell a big-box version that may or may not optionally have an empty spot for my base game, I would also not complain. I know that is a lot about Riot Games, but that is just my attempt at making a comparison to what it is you are asking about Scythe. I would have really liked to have seen a complete package game when I first purchased it, including all 7 factions (frankly) and with a well-crafted game insert included. If that is just not an option, then I’m accepting whatever you can best accommodate. I just kickstarted a custom big box version of Champions of Midgard so I could put my base game and the new expansions together. I don’t know what I’ll do with the base game box I have now. :-) I saw one guy on Board Game Group on FB putting his game boxes on the wall like they were pictures/decorations. I’m pretty geeky, but don’t think I want to go down that road. :-)

        1. Charles: There are a few key things to understand about Riot vs. Stonemaier, with the biggest being that despite our Kickstarter projects, we rely heavily on distribution sales. Riot skipped distribution, hence why they were able to offer MvM for $75 instead of $180. There really is no comparison between Riot and any game company that uses traditional distribution.

          I’m sorry you feel like you didn’t get a “complete” package when you backed Scythe on Kickstarter. Even if I had designed the expansion factions at that point (I had not), adding them plus a bigger box plus a fancy insert would have increased the cost of the game by at least $40, which simply isn’t marketable or scaleable.

          1. I understand, really. I was just providing you feedback as a gamer/consumer. I’m surprised you didn’t have all 7 designed beforehand. The playability of all 7 is phenomenal, really. And, yes, I get that the cost would have likely been prohibitive for most gamers to get in up front. As you stated, I’m sure roughly triple MSRP. From what I understand, Riot Games used their considerable cash reserves from everybody’s favorite video game realm to fund the whole thing. So that is obviously a tremendous differentiator from everyone else. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not complaining (even though it likely came across that way). Your product is amazing, and I’m sure I’ll be playing Scythe long after Mechs vs. Minions…. :-)

          2. This just may not be possible, but what if you worked with Broken Token and MeepleRealty, etc. to provide the big box so that we might be able to order it with expansion inserts that go along with the inserts we already may have purchased? I imagine that will end up in an even more logistical nightmare, of many complexities. But that would be a nice option. For instance, if I KS your next whatever number of expansions, and I can go thru Broken Token to purchase the bigger box that includes new/additional insert(s) that work(s) with the existing Broken Token insert I already have.

          3. Charles: “what if you worked with Broken Token and MeepleRealty, etc. to provide the big box so that we might be able to order it with expansion inserts that go along with the inserts we already may have purchased?”

            Right, that’s the exact plan I outlined in this post. :)

      2. Oh ok! My bad! I missed that you were actually going to have them include not just the “big box” but also include the additional “add-on” insert that works along-side the insert we may already own. If I’m going to have to buy another insert, the “big box” option is a nice one.

      3. FYI – Careful about the AEG approach. I am still awaiting a replacement Big Box after I opened mine(new) and it was moldy on the inside. Apparently the glue used and/or the empty space in the box was a mold spawning ground. Read about it on the forums.

      4. The only reason the smash up big geeky box is a reasonable buy to me is because it also adds to the gameplay, it doesn’t just simplify logistics.

        1. And now they are making a Bigger, Geekier Big Box for Smash Up so it can hold even more stuff/expansions. Sadly, I have bought both boxes within months of each other as I had no idea that the first one was not designed very well (no place for all the manuals without lifting the lid a bit). The bigger one is also coming with a expanded manual to cover all of the current expansions to date. But I doubt highly they are done with the expansions so that manual will be outdated soon enough. It is quite a dilemma.

          But I do love my Legendary Box for Scythe!!

    1. I love the idea of the Smash Up Big Geeky Box, but I think it works mostly because it’s a card game, so it’s just more slots for cards. Another good example is BANG! The Bullet, it has the base game and 4 expansions in a cool, eye-catching bullet container. But again it’s all small and simple components. With a board game with complex components a big box would get cumbersome quite quickly.

    2. Hostage negotiator Crime Wave by Van Ryder Games has a box which will fit the original box inside, but this is a much smaller scale.

    3. I agree about having organization with the big box. I like having everything in a single box, but only if it can all fit nicely… not just having things thrown in wherever they can fit. Shipping more of the containers that came with Scythe to accommodate all of the resources, coins, meeples, etc. would be ideal. Then having designated spots for the miniatures, containers, boards, and cards would be perfect (something similar to what T.I.M.E. Stories has). There’s nothing better than a nicely organized game box.

      I understand that the amount of time and cost that would go into creating something like this would be greater than just producing a bigger box, but I’d spend my money on it for sure.

    4. Hero Realms, Star Realms and Boss Monster have also released similar products. To be fair, they were much smaller than what such a product for Scythe would resemble, as they are all three purely card games, but they appear to be selling rather well.

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