Secret Kickstarter Backer Survey Page

Welcome to the Secret Kickstarter Backer Survey Page–thanks for taking the time to share your input with us.

The new question is: Which resources would you most like to see in “realistic” token form? We’ll take responses into account as we’re figuring out what to put into the Treasure Chest along with the new gold, clay, and stone tokens.

 

The question on the table is: What do you think about Stonemaier offering the special Euphoria resources at a premium price outside of Kickstarter?

While we are hoping for your blessing to offer the special Euphoria resources at a premium price outside of Kickstarter, we will respect your input. If it looks like a fairly significant percentage of backers are against the idea (at least 20% against), we won’t offer the special Euphoria resources outside of Kickstarter.

Also, if you’re against it, I would love to know why–that would be really helpful in helping me determine the next step and to figure out what’s best for backers in general. Feel free to comment below about that.

UPDATE: This poll will remain open, but you can also see our solution here.

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112 Comments on “Secret Kickstarter Backer Survey Page

  1. I’m late. But I thought I’d throw in my opinion anyway :) On the specific point of the resources being available to all; I have no problem with that.

    I’ve been burned by KS exclusive in-game-content before (bought a game based on an early review of the KS version and basicly felt like I got half a game for my money with the retail version – that game was nothing to do with stonemaier, if anyone cares, the game rhymed with Ron-B-Pride :P ). I thought you(SM) had the formula pretty much perfect for Euphoria, but I can understand how you later realised that the resources actually added something to the experience, so shouldn’t be held back.

    I recently thougt of likening a ‘good’ KS bonus to having the hardback edition of a book(stick with me, it does make sense!), a hardback cover is such minor thing, but I can’t deny having a hardback edition is just a bit nicer than the run of the mill paperback. But it’s important that it doesn’t lessen or restrict all those people who get the paperback later on. Knowing that there aren’t any more hardback books quite like mine on the shelves anymore somehow adds to it’s sense of ‘value’, but I can’t say I’ve ever been distressed about having paperbacks of plenty of books. It seems to me that a lot of people still but hardbacks so I thought it was something worth mentioning as a system that works and is a pretty close analogy for KS exclusive content?

    Anyway, to finish up, I think it will be a bit of a shame to see nothing special to mark future Stonemaier KS-backers’ games at all. Having been impressed with Euphoria I’ll, at the very least, have a look at anything you guys put out in the future regardless of pricing/exclusives. But with company’s I don’t know, some cosmetic variant to the base game, that I cannot get later on, would make me much more likely to jump in on a KS than a reduced price on the product.

    1. Kev: I definitely hear what you’re saying. As a backer, I get exciting about exclusives too. They give me a reason to back a game now instead of wait until later if I want the full experience. However, there appears to be a minority of people who want exclusives because they don’t want anyone else to have what they have, which to me is just silly. If I brought a special copy of a game to game night, I would love it if other people suddenly wanted the thing that I had the foresight to back, and I would want them to have an opportunity to get it. Thus I think that having elements in a Kickstarter campaign that are included or at a drastically reduced price and then finding some other way in the future to give regular customers access to them is really important to me–both as a gamer and a publisher.

      That’s the approach we’re taking with Tuscany. In fact, we’re doing it in several different ways. I won’t go into all of them here, but the two key ways are with Arboriculture and the custom metal lira coins (both are add-ons to the core game). People will be able to get Arboriculture in the future, but not by itself, and probably not until late 2015. So there’s a time advantage to getting it early. Also, people will be able to get the custom metal lira in the future, but at a premium price. So there’s a financial advantage to getting it early.

      Also, I think the element of building something together on Kickstarter shouldn’t be underestimated. With Euphoria, I think there are a lot of people out there who can see their mark on the final game. We’ll continue to do that with Tuscany, and we’ll be doing something that physically puts the mark of some early backers on the game. Plus, I think some backers get a lot of joy out of contributing to stretch goals that help everyone–they made the game better for everyone, not just themselves, and that feels good.

      We understand that there are some people who greatly prefer to wait until a game hits retailers and lots of reviewers before they make a decision to buy it, and we totally understand. But that’s not our target market, and I think we would detract from the great things we can do with the Kickstarter community if we spent our time and resources trying to convince those non-backers to completely change their buying behavior just for us.

      But who knows? We’ll see when Tuscany hits if it works or not. :)

  2. A deal is a deal and a contract is a contract. You cannot hold a vote afterwards to void an earlier agreement. I am disappointed that this would even come up and it bodes ill for the company.

  3. “1: I “hate” people who buy multiple KS items as investments (ie: to sell on eBay and make a profit).”

    I take offense at this. I backed for 6 copies of the game including two recruit cards, a total of $450 pledged. That is the most I’ve ever put into a single project, and it’s a significant amount of money to my family. That means that despite being just TWO of 4765 backers (I had to pledge from both accounts to get two recruit rewards), I contributed 0.17% of the entire project’s funding. That doesn’t sound like much, until you realize that if everyone had backed as I did, the campaign would have brought in $2,144,250, or about 7 times what it actually did. Just imagine the sparkly resources we would have had with that overfunding level! :-)

    I’ve invested in literally hundreds of Kickstarter campaigns and I’ve met with some major disappointments along the way, including multiple games delayed well over a year and several that will never deliver. Euphoria could have been among them; I was a very early playtester of the game and knew it was a low risk, but it was a non-zero risk. For you to say it’s wrong for me to have a few extra copies that I could sell to gamers — most likely fellow BGGers — who really want the Supreme edition, while making back a little bit of money, is ridiculous.

    The good news is, I’m sure that in a few months to years there will be people who will be thrilled that I have in-shrink Euphoria Supreme. Don’t worry, I hate eBay, so you won’t see any of my copies there. :-)

  4. Kickstarter is a site where I invest in things I want to see on the market. I want to see Euphoria, in all its glory, on the market.

    Kickstarter exclusives shouldn’t be a monopoly for life on aspects of a game, excusives are exclusive to the backers for the first run. It is a place for you to test out bonus features and ideas for future editions.

    It’s not that I allow you to offer the exclusives to a wider market, I encourage you to.

  5. I’m against it. I think it will negatively affect your kickstarter pledges.

    Here is why.

    As you mentioned buying games online at retailers consumers can get a pretty good discount over MSRP. Typically I would wait to do that. That allows the hype for the game to die down, and after the hype dies down and more game reviews come IF the game is a really solid one, I’ll buy.

    HOWEVER if the game looks like it may be good and The only way to get the really buff version of the game is to take a chance and kickstart it I’d pull the trigger, not wanting to miss out on the pimped out version.

    The risk under the current model for NOT funding is NOT getting the exclusives.

    The direction you are taking now means there is NO risk to not kickstart it (except the game not launching at all). So many probably won’t.

    If a future release comes out thats really good and has really cool parts, those parts will be available later, as a separate purchase. Even if I have to pay a couple dollars more to pimp out the future release after the fact, I still can. That means I can have the benefits of not having my money tied up for months on a project that may or may not be that great, and still get the pimped out version after general release if the game turns out to be worth it.

    1. Ray,

      Let’s talk actual numbers here.

      Say you decide to wait to get Tuscany until after the Kickstarter campaign. You’re fine with getting the basic version and testing it out. You go to your local game store and see it on the shelf. MSRP will be $60. Let’s say your store discounts it to $45. Great price, you enjoy the game, and you decide that you want the full experience of playing with the custom metal lira coins. You go to our website (that will be the only place to get them), and you’ll see that they come bundled with some special resource tokens that you can use in other games. That’s the only way to get the lira, and the cost is $25. Thus for you to get Tuscany Prima, you will spend $70. You’ll also get the game later than anyone else and you’ll miss out on other engaging things we’re doing during the Kickstarter campaign.

      Let’s look at the flip side: You can back Tuscany Prima (which comes with the coins) for $49 with free shipping.

      Which is more appealing to you?

      Jamey

  6. I’m perfectly fine with it. I got a great looking game for a really good price, I received full transparency and have felt you have great respect for your backers. My good deal will not go away because you offer others a chance to enhance their game experience.

  7. Im fine with it, however I do think that having something extra for the Kickstarters is some of the things that also makes a good kickstart. Cause basically we are funding ahead of time, to make sure that the game gets enough funding for an initial run.
    Giving something that is unique in some way to that, works wonders, as it gives an incitement to buy the kickstarter.

    I think that if you remove these things, then people would think, oki, Im not gonna wait maybe a year to get something I have already paid for, and get the same as any other retailers get, when the product is out.

  8. Sell you game how you wan to sell your game. I’m enjoying my copy and happy to correct myself to a friend you wanted to buy a copy – I can tell him there may be a way to get the realistic resources.

  9. I am fine with offering the upgrde path of components. I find it could be a nice revenue source to help an independant company stay viable. The benefit of a kickstarter for me is the discounted rate of a game I will enjoy. I see kickstarter as similar to GMT p500 where I can support a game going to print.

  10. I think this is creative interpretation of the original offer. It didn’t say “A combined version of the game with all the higher quality bits sold in the box” was the exclusive. But neither did it say, “These components are exclusive to this campaign and pledge levels that qualify for them.”. So it becomes a matter of perspective.

    What you’re effectively saying is that anything that is exclusive is only exclusive as “a package sold together”, but it’s okay to be sold separately and combined by the purchaser without invalidating the exclusivity promised to the original folks. But I don’t think many people would agree that’s really the definition of exclusivity.

    Having said that, I agree with folks that playing with the higher quality components is the best way to play the game, and people who didn’t discover the game during the KS campaign should have that opportunity. What I would propose is that you find something else that is purely cosmetic (and not something you will ever be tempted to offer to non-backers) and offer that to backers at a reasonable price as a ‘sharing bonus’. This maintains the promise of exclusivity defined as “I have bits no one else can ever get”, but lets you offer the current high quality bits to all.

  11. I’m a-okay with kickstarter exclusives being available in this sort of resource pack. I absolutely love the deluxe pieces and it seems a shame and a missed opportunity not to offer them in some way.

    But I also want to say that I really don’t like the idea of doing away with kickstarter exclusives in the future. I back projects in part because I want that exclusive content. If I can get the same game from stores without risking any investment on kickstarter, I’d probably do that instead. If most of those exclusives have a separate cost (as with the resource pack) and are released at a later date, I’m much more on board with that.

  12. For me the entire point of the exclusive stuff when I back it is two-fold:
    1) Get the stuff first
    2) Get the stuff cheaper

    Number 1 you deliver on…and as long as you don’t sell deluxe editions of Euphoria, where they have to buy the base game and then an extra pack for more money on top of that to get as cool an experience as I have that totally works for me.

  13. I’m definitely for it. In fact, I’d be first in line to purchase these treasure chests to use in other games that use similar resources.

  14. Just throwing my 2 cents in the ring…resources do not bother me, go for it! But what if you made all further game boards just one sided? Might save on printing costs and as a KS still gives me an “exclusive”.

  15. The fact that you saw the need to even ask this question is just another example of what a great company Stonemaier is, and how much you care about your backers. I think we all want you to be a success, so if this helps towards that end, absolutely go for it!

  16. I am 100% in support of you making these items available to others.
    As mentioned above: I feel the pain of people who missed or were unable to fund previous kickstarters. I do not value board games as “collector’s items” they are too use and enjoy. I feel like everyone should be able to obtain the promos or other things for additional cost to enjoy or expand the game in the same way that I was able to. A discount for being one of the people to kickstart the game is good enough for me!
    I also do not like the “speculation” on kickstarter edition games by individuals. It’s “smart” but it feels like essentially taking advantage of other people with the same Hobby as you who were unlucky enough to miss or be unable to fund something if they want the “complete” game.

  17. I agree with others who wrote about not always being able to help Kickstart a new game. It’s nice to be able to add-on those items that you not have been able to afford during the initial go round. Anyway, it’s a classy move to put this out to the backers for a vote. But if it helps your business, and gives your more options when creating future games, you should go for it.

  18. There have been so many kickstarters who created something neat for the campaign and then later realized that they’re never going to get to use their idea again because they promised a bank of kickstarter backers that the idea would be exclusive to them. Screw that. If you have a good idea or something neat to add to the game, giving it to us backers for free was our reward. Exclusivity should be thrown right out the window. We got it first and we got it cheaper; That was our reward. Please feel free to make the realistic resources as an expansion that people can buy to make their game slightly better, be it with Tuscany, a Euphoria reprint, or any other game you want. Cheaper/sooner was reward enough.

  19. Stonemaier Games may have started out as a side thing but I think we all see it developing into a business for you guys. Running a business means doing what is best for the business to not only survive but thrive. You have brought me 2 games that I’m very happy with and look forward to more. Do what is in you best interest. I would even say why stop at making it exclusive at all. Why not make this resource pack available (as most other game publishers do) to all retail outlets so gamers can add it on to their orders with CoolStuff, Time Well Spent and Fun Again. Would be bottom line profit for you guys (that can be reinvested in bringing us more great games) and makes the resources more readily available for everyone even those who just want the bits for other games.

    With that said though…would the gold bricks be imprinted with the word Euphoria on it? I mean that does make it less attractive to add to other games.

    1. THoiA: That’s a good question about the resources. There was some discussion of this on the Kickstarter update, as some of the “against” backers would be okay with this idea if I create new versions of the resources for the future. So I’m open to creating new moulds for each of the components, including a mould for the gold bricks that doesn’t have the word “Euphoria” on it.

      The problem with entering these resources into general distribution is that we would have to raise the cost to break even after distributors take their 60% cut. I’d rather have complete control of the price and the shipping to keep the price the same for pretty much everyone.

  20. I voted in favor of making these available. If you had given the option to vote “Include them in some future Premium version of the game,” I would vote yes to that too. You need to make the best game possible, and in this case, the resources make it the best game possible. It’s one of the most commented things about the game when I play it with others. I think it’s too bad when I show the game to another gamer, if they like it, I have to tell them that the game available in stores isn’t really as cool as the one I have, and there’s no way for them to get an equally cool version of it.

  21. excited by this, think this will give options for people that see my game to get the ‘extras’ down the road. thanks.

  22. I have to admit playing with those components are wonderful and add something to the game. While it won’t be the end of the world if you do start to offering them now, they were promised as an exclusive. While I probably would have stilled backed the game if they were not offered as an exclusive, I doubt I would have ordered two copies at the time if I knew that I could get those components in the future.

    Kickstarter has risks associated with it and one of them is that things promised with the best of intentions are sometimes revised after the fact. As they say, hindsight is 20 20. Perhaps you could offer the components now but with a slightly different appearance so that Kickstarter components still had a different exclusive look.

    1. Michael: I’m definitely open to that. It costs about $1,000 to change each of the moulds, but if that’s what it’ll take to make sure all original Euphoria. backers have unique pieces, it’s worth it.

  23. Thanks for asking! If I had paid for an exclusive add-on, I would have been reluctant. But well just say these items were KS exclusively free. :P

  24. I think this is the best way to go! When I miss a KS campaign for a game I want or have enjoyed by playing someone else’s copy I’m upset and less likely to go buy it if I can’t get KS exclusive stuff that impacts the game. The box sleeve doesn’t, nor the double-sided board for me, but not being able to play with those components of wood, metal and the bricks would keep me from buying Euphoria from a retailer. If I could buy the Treasure chest you’re talking about to add to a retail copy I’d be fine with that. Yes, I’d have to pay more than the KS backers overall, but I kissed the campaign and didn’t have to deal with the inherent risk that entails. That absolutely includes being able to play a game and try it before purchasing it which is worth a lot with so many games out there these days! I’m looking forward to Tuscany and the Treasure Chest as adding quality components can make most any game a lot more enjoyable to play.

  25. You have my blessing.

    Look at these comments! With all those white stars, you certainly have all the authority you need!! :)

  26. As a general concept, I am about 90% for ‘no exclusives’. It is a great warm fuzzy glow knowing that you have something that makes you part of a limited crowd – but I can get that as much from the box sleeve as from the resources, so having exclusives that don’t alter gameplay: good, exclusives that make it a substantially different game: bad.

    The resources make a huge look and feel difference, and for all they are not a new mechanic I think they do alter the play experience enough that opening them up to all is the right thing.

    I still would like to see exclusive little kitsch items, like the box sleeve (in the sense of unsubstantial, not gaudy). I would also be behind ‘Yours exclusively for the first year/six months’ items – it is nice to walk into a con, find two other people with the game, and have people flock to yours because you have the KS version :-D. Probably also some good marketing impact there…

  27. I don’t have an issue with WHERE the treasure chest is offered, I just very much dislike treasure chests. I’d rather pay more overall for each component for the game I want instead of buying a treasure chest with pieces I don’t need. I understand how this could be a tactic to get people to buy more games from the same publisher, but everything in the chest should at least be available independently!

    1. Josh: As for making components independently, that’s something we’ve thought a lot about. Like, instead of having a treasure chest that includes the custom metal lira and the special resources, we could sell those two components separately. However, there comes a point when packaging a single component doesn’t make financial sense anymore, especially because Amazon fulfillment charges the same pick-and-pack fee regardless of the contents or price of a package. So if we do the treasure chest, it will only include ubiquitous components that can be used for a variety of games, but I think it will always include at least two components.

  28. Whatever stonemaier games needs. I agree with your email. How could you play euphoria without those resources? Keep making great games.
    Jamey for President.

  29. Put them up for sale and I hope that you sell millions of these things! Thanks for asking the backers. I’m very glad that you considered our opinions before taking this step.

    I backed a board game, you, and your company. I didn’t back an exclusive, although they are nice sometimes. My one concern is that some people will stop backing campaigns and wait for a lower online retailer price later. If you want to eliminate the exclusives from Kickstarter (which I’m fine with), please continue to make sure there’s some incentive to pay more up front for a game that we haven’t had the time to investigate, read reviews on BGG, see gameplay videos, etc. Kickstarter is always a bit of a leap of faith.

    Best wishes, and I can’t wait to see Tuscany up on KS!

  30. Add me to the ‘yes’ column. If it helps you keep making games, Jamey, all the better.

    Regarding the whole promise-breaking aspect of the discussion, I agree with Jamey that as long as the bits aren’t available in the retail version, the promise is kept. There are definitely a lot of people who seem to think making the bits available at all breaks the promise, though, and they have their right to that opinion. To that end, the suggestion made on the Kickstarter update page of altering the pieces so kickstarted games remain unique should keep those people happy. I guess it’s up to you whether or not it’s worth it to shell out a little extra cash to keep them as future backers.

  31. I like the idea from the practical side: existing owners now also have access to buying “spare”parts and not be terrified every time they play it outside their home. To be honest, this news is a sigh of relief from me to have no qualms about bringing the game to meet ups!

  32. Jamey I appreciate that you feel you need to ask but I know I just want success for Stonemaier games. Plus, your success means more of your amazing games for all of us down the road!

  33. I hate kickstater exclusives, specially when they change gameplay or expands the game (zombicide, two viticulture cards). However, as other people already wrote, I also bought an extra copy and I am not happy about the idea of this change (and I hate “i did not wrote exactly that” )., specially because in this case it is not going to change the gameplay at all.
    Also, my wording of investment is misleading. I will sell my other copy to pay for extra expenses and customs taxes too – well, each copy cost me around 90 bucks.
    Do you wanna remove Ks exclusive? Great!!!!! This is not gonna change my opinion about backing future projects.
    Do you wanna change the rules? please, No!! Otherwise, people that bought extra copies wouldnt have done that (and this is going to change my opinion about future projects)

  34. As someone who has backed numerous boardgame projects on kickstarter (over 50), I strongly dislike kickstarter exclusive content… especially when it is an expansion or something that effects game play. Why? Because I don’t buy collector items… I buy games. And I take absolutely no pleasure in the idea that others won’t be able to enjoy the “full” game.

    Really, kickstarter exclusives feel too much as a marketing scheme trying to strong-arm you into purchasing the game based on rarity rather than the merits of the game. It is like CCGs, and we all know how popular they are on BGG.

    So as a backerof Euphoria and Viticulture… I totally support the change 100%

  35. The only request I would make is to continue to leverage the great work regarding the local shipping that safeguards the EU backers from customs charges. This is the biggest turnoff I have that stops me buying from the US. If I can get all of the games and extras through the website at a comparable price without fear of being charges twice the amount, I am more than happy to see great components available for other games and uses.

    1. Absolutely, if the vote passes and we create a “treasure chest,” we would use the worldwide fulfillment system we set up for our games to make sure that shipping prices stay low for everyone.

  36. A couple of thoughts regarding KS and exclusives ..

    1: I “hate” people who buy multiple KS items as investments (ie: to sell on eBay and make a profit).

    2: As long as the incentives for backing a KS are real and none of this discount based on the RRP nonsense then fine go ahead and remove exclusives.

    3: People who claim that KS projects are “stumbled” across and count themselves fortunate to back a project are deluded. If board gaming is your hobby then you really have no excuse to miss any campaign – apart from perhaps changing your mind at a later date ..

  37. Personally I don’t care if you sell copies with the upgraded components included at retail. I’m not a big fan of Kickstarter exclusives as they penalise people who miss the ks campaign or don’t back it due to shipping costs. The main point is the game is great and the service was fantastic (as well as fair shipping to the UK). If Jamey makes more money from selling the games then he can make a living and bring us more great games.

  38. No problem at all Jamey!!!! Its is a great idea and I wish every company gives this option to people that cannot kickstart everything..

  39. I’m against it, kickstarter exclusive is kickstarter exclusive. Don’t change that, it’s not very respectfull to the backers. The only reason I backed this project is for the kickstarter exclusive pieces I wanted. If this happens I probably won’t back your next project. Keep your word

    1. Absolutely, I’m not going to change my promise: I promised to only offer the version of Euphoria that includes the special resources on Kickstarter, and I’m going to keep that promise.

  40. I think an excusive box design, cover art or game sleeve is the way to go. It makes a unique version of the game and gives backers those important “I was there first” bragging rights. But actual game elements, be it functional (grande worker) or aesthetic (realistic resources) should not be denied to folks that want em. Charging a fair price for premium features is just logical. Anyone with an issue with that will be disappointed frequently in life. But these things should be available somehow. Trying to track down exclusives and promos is an all too common annoyance in gaming. On some occasions it has kept me from buying the base game because the quest of finding all the stray bits was too daunting. Perhaps it’s a bad stereotype, but for me personally and a lot of my acquaintances there’s a strong correlation between gamers and completionist OCD. I really like Dixit and yet my enjoyment of the game is diminished 1% because it bugs me there is still a couple promo cards I’m “missing”.

  41. I’m fine with the idea of offering the exclusives for a premium price. Otherwise, there would be no incentive for people to back you anymore in Kickstarter. Agreed, you haven’t missed a deadline, but it is still a risk inherent to KS.

    One thing though: if you get rid of exclusives and offer them through the website as a treasure chest, then make sure that shipping worldwide is the same price! It would be a betrayal to international customers if they need to pay twice the amount to get those items.

  42. My first impression was one of wariness, but your plan as outlined in the update is solid and respects your backers. Thank you for staying true to your backers and your principles. I have seen several “bait and switches” in the Kickstarter projects I’ve backed. This is not one, that is very clear. I’m very happy for you to offer the upgraded components in a “treasure chest” available on your own webstore.

  43. I will not feel betrayed if you offer the specials resources to people who did not backed the kickstarter. I think part of the game is mine because I made it possible. That is also a reward.

  44. Of course it´s nice to own something special and limited. On the other hand, nothing is more frustrating than missing a cool KS-Campaign (which happens too easy) and be pissed off afterwards because you won´t be able to get the nice KS-Exclusives anymore – i experienced that myself more than once. So you have my blessing :)

  45. So I’m evidently gonna be one of the few people to explain my “against it” vote.

    I feel the way I do for the same reason I am always against every Kickstarter project I’ve backed doing something similar to renege on the promise of exclusivity: you made a *promise*. The entire point of a promise is that you keep it when it’s hard, not when it’s easy and convenient. Would I personally care overmuch if this treasure chest thing happened? I’d be a little irked, but by no means apoplectic. But SOMEBODY out there is going to feel flat out betrayed and be pissed off, and to me even if every backer but one says it’s OK, you should still honor your promise up until the day every last backer says they’re cool with it. (And even then, I’m not sure I buy it’s ethically pure to lay down what could be construed as a guilt trip on backers in hopes you’ll be released from your original bond.)

    Finally and FWIW, I’ve always felt re-offering something that was a “Kickstarter exclusive” in a later Kickstarter campagin is a little shady UNLESS it was made explicit that “Kickstarter Exclusive” meant “could be offered on Kickstarter again in the future” and not “exclusive to THIS Kickstarter campaign”. I’m not sure whether that was the case here or not. If it was stated, I’m find with the Tuscany campaign offering the bits. If not, I’m not. But again, I ain’t gonna go crazy on any message boards or anything denouncing you as an awful person, which you’re clearly not.

    1. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Jason (I feel like I’m mostly just replying to the “against” people, but I’m sure the “for” people know that I relate to what they’re saying!).

      I’m actually not going to break my promise. I promised to only offer the version of Euphoria that includes the special resources on Kickstarter. In fact, I’m going to go above and beyond that promise and not ever offer that version of Euphoria again on any platform (except for charity). We’re only making the retail version from now on.

      As for offering previous KS exclusive rewards on future campaigns, I did that with openness and transparency during the Euphoria campaign (with excess KS copies of Viticulture), so there’s no break in consistency there.

  46. Like many, I was thrilled to get the high-quality additions at a Kickstarter price. That being said, I’ve thought about this many times, and I’d feel sorry for anyone forced to play without the additional features. It’s part of how the game draws you into the story, into that world. The purpose of Kickstarter isn’t to limit those who don’t initially support something. It’s about people joining together to bring a dream into reality. The fact that we raised enough money to upgrade those elements in the first place without you charging any additional fee is awesome! With that, you have served your backers well.

    Part of the reason I have loved following the Euphoria campaign is seeing you grow, Jamey. Turning your dream and hard work into a full-time business that will continue to produce games of this quality is the manifestation of our investment in you. Euphoria is popular because you did everything you could to make the game a pleasurable experience, and that’s what you should continue to do for everyone! It’s that level of quality and attention to detail which will continue to set Stonemaier Games apart.

    We kickstarted you to get things rolling; now it’s your responsibility to run with it! Plus, I’m sure at some point people will lose pieces and want replacements. Having those items on hand means you can continue to serve your backers in that way as well. Jamey, I wish you the best in all your future endeavors.

    Long Live Stonemaier Games!

    1. David: I must admit that I’m rather touched by this: “Part of the reason I have loved following the Euphoria campaign is seeing you grow, Jamey.” Today’s update was about me trying to grow and asking backers to enable me to do so. This isn’t a static operation I’m running–I’m learning everyday, and sometimes that means acknowledging mistakes made in the past so I can make the future better not just for Stonemaier Games, but for backers and gamers everywhere. Thank you for supporting that growth.

  47. I think you are breaking a promise and breaking the trust I gave you. I like to have the exclusive reward for buying the game sight unseen. I helped you get the game off the ground. The gift you gave me in return was these exclusives. These exclusives say to people that I had faith in you. Now you are selling that faith away. It will make me think twice about what I back in future.

    1. Sean: Absolutely, and I appreciate you doing all of those things. Just to make sure we’re on the same page, exactly what is the promise I made to you?

      I ask that because my perception is this: I promised that I would only sell the version of Euphoria that has realistic resources on Kickstarter. I’m not going to break that promise.

      1. You promised Kickstarter exclusives. To me this means that the version of the game that the KS backers get is unique. It represents their trust.

        1. Sean: Absolutely. Your version of Euphoria is unique and won’t be replicated. You have the only version that comes with a black and white board, wooden stars, a box sleeve, and increased commodities. It also came with realistic resources included in the box, all for $49.

          So in the future if I offer Euphoria without the black and white board, without the wooden stars, without the box sleeve, without the extra commodities, I charge $70 MSRP for it, and I offer realistic resources separately for $25, did you not get something unique?

  48. I am in support of it, but I will not be backing any more of your projects in the future. I will wait for them to hit the shelves. I think that’s a fair thing for both of us.

    With the Torn Armor cancellation fresh in my mind, I have to say that I back you on KS knowing that it’s a gamble. But why gamble?

    I considered a long-winded response, but I won’t leave one. I love your product and I agree that you should give the option of the nice components. We all love them. It’s one of my new favourite games and I couldn’t imagine the game without them. I want everyone to experience them.

    So I will likely be purchasing Tuscany, but I’ll do it from a retailer if it makes it that far, which it most likely will.

    Good luck!

    1. Cal: I would put is in a very different category than the Defiance situation with Torn Armor, but sure, both updates came out on the same day.

      It’s completely fair for you (and any backer) to choose to wait for the retail version. i respect that, and I hope to make a great game for you and everyone else.

  49. I am for KS exclusives but I also think it’s a mistake to make “certain” things exclusive. Game play exclusives that games such as Zombicide are famous for bother me. A special looking die, alternate art cards, special box design, custom first player marker, etc., none of those should anyone have issue with (IMO). Outright better components for the game? Yeah, I understand why someone is going to be bothered that their version of the game comes with cardboard chits while mine has nice wooden ones.

    I want everyone’s game to feel quality. BUT… at the same time, if I am going to give you money up front for a game I don’t even know if I’ll ever get (it happens), or maybe I will get but it be a bad game, I need some incentives. If I’m paying you the publisher directly for a game and you are asking near MSRP, you are getting a substantial mark up. Normally your profit comes from the markup you sell to distributors who then have to mark it up to sell to retailers who then mark it up to sell to me. But with KS, your profit margin is substantially higher, which is why many publishers want to jump on this gravy train.

    With KS exclusives, I have incentive to pay that mark up because if I let that ship sail and wait for retail, I may pay less, but I’ll miss out potentially on something I want. Take for example Zombicide. The standard KS backer price was $100. I bought my copy from an online retailer for $56. If I had backed Zombicide, I would feel MUCH more upset to see someone get the same exact game for almost half what I paid. I wouldn’t want to back that company in the future. But as a backer, I could feel satisfied that even though I paid much more, I got good value that a retail purchaser didn’t. As a retail purchaser, am I bummed not to have those exclusives? Sure. But it wasn’t worth the extra cost to me. I made a consumer choice, and I didn’t cry about it.

    As a fan of Euphoria and someone who respected how you handled the Kickstarter, I worry that you are trying too hard to please everyone. You simply can’t. I worry that in trying you will jeopardize future projects. Hopefully I’m wrong. Perhaps you’ll find a happy medium. I think exclusives can be good or bad depending on how they are used. I hope that you will continue to use good ones to reward those who helped make your game even possible to begin with.

    1. Eric: Thanks for this comment–you have a lot of interesting thoughts here. I definitely agree that there have to be incentives to attract backers to a project, but I don’t think exclusives are the only way to do that. I’d rather get rid of exclusives (as we’re doing for all future projects) and focus on other was of exciting, engaging, and motivating backers.

  50. I’m fine with. I both love and hate exclusives. I hate finding out about a Kickstarter campaign that I like after it has finished and realising I’ve missed out on some really cool exclusive. I would prefer it if all exclusive were time limited. ie You get them at a great price during the campaign or if you miss out then you can get them 6 months later at fair price. That way the backer get to have the items exclusively for a period of time, and then everyone else can get in on the fun if they want.

  51. Part of the reason I enjoy playing Euphoria are the custom tokens. I absolutely LOVE the gold bars and clay bricks (the “silver” are great, but not as amazing as the other two). I couldn’t imagine playing without the wooden stars or the gold bricks. It wouldn’t be the same game. I absolutely think these products should be available, and fully endorse you selling them on your website, kickstarter-exclusive or not. Keep up the great work!

  52. I can haz give you all my moneys for awesome gamez? I like that otherz can haz give you moneys for awesome gamez to. I no want otherz haz less awesome gamez because words says exclusive. Exclusive sux. If I can haz pay to make otherz’ gamez better because you nose how to spend my moneys good, I happy. Well, that and cheezburger.

  53. Sounds like s great idea. Hope those who are against it will read this page and join the crowd in helping Stonemaier Games continue to innovate and to grow.

  54. This is a fantastic idea, and I think those of us who got them in the first place are already exclusive in that we got to play the game first, we got the game for less than retail, and we didn’t have to purchase upgraded components seperately.

  55. I think this is a great idea. When I first started backing kickstarter games I liked the idea of getting something special. I have since changed my mind – I back projects for the game not the extra bits & everyone should get the chance to enjoy the same copy of the game. I would definitely purchase the resources separately.

  56. I voted to allow it but with one caveat. You must promise to never, ever, ever claim anything as a Kickstarter exclusive. You can say that it will be free with the Kickstarter campaign, or that the standard game won’t include it but not that it won’t be available outside the campaign.

  57. It’s fine by me. In fact, to be honest, I didn’t realize you weren’t planning on selling those premium quality game pieces afterwards because it makes perfect sense.

    It’s nice to have them as a bonus for kickstarter, but there’s no sense in designing such fantastic game parts and not selling them as part of your wider business in the long run.

  58. I didn’t back the Kickstarter version of Euphoria because it was exclusive; I backed it because it was *awesome*! I totally support Stonemaier Games selling any/all of the Kickstarter “exclusive” items, especially when it enhances the gaming experience!

  59. I hate Kickstarter exclusivity with a passion. Preferably I’d like to see the improved pieces become standard so as to keep the quality of the game as high as possible. I’d like more people to play. And more people to buy the game so Stonemaier Games can grow and create larger and better games.

    Failing that, being available as a special order from your website is preferred; the people who supported your Kickstarter got them included for free and therefore shouldn’t complain.

    I’d rather more people enjoy the game and more sales be made. And for those people who vote no for prestige reasons, what is going to happen to their prestige when their games go missing in fire, theft, or flood?

  60. Call me selfish, but I do think the two sided board should stay special to the kickstarter sets.
    And thanks for caring about what we think. Stupid auto correct!

  61. I love the idea even though it will cost me money, probably. I ordered extra copies of Euphoria as an investment. Please sell the resources. They are lovely and it will improve our hobby. Thanks for carrying about what we think .

    1. Julia: Thanks for your comment. I know that some people like you bought multiple games as an investment, so I’m probably the most worried about that. The resources are the only element of Euphoria I’d like to produce outside of Kickstarter.

      Medwards: Absolutely. I’ll never use that phrase again. I think the Treasure Chest would be Stonemaier Exclusive, and there are a few elements of Tuscany that would be exclusive to the first print run (simply because they’ll be obsolete after both Viticulture 2.0 and Tuscany 1.0 are already on the market), but we’re done with Kickstarter exclusives.

  62. Speaking also as someone who can’t Kickstart everything, and someone who’s come late to the party for some games/companies that I am now a huge fan of, I love being able to get a hold of Kickstarter materials, particularly for high prices. Frankly, in those cases I feel like I missed out on the chance to support the company I (now) know about and really like, and I _want_ to be able to buy more things from them, even or especially at a premium price. As Kickstarter or other indie funding sources grow, it’s just going to get harder to keep tabs on everything – great projects will always fall through the cracks. I’m thrilled to have the chance to support them even after Kickstarter is over.

  63. I have no trouble with the Treasure Chest or with you selling the realistic tokens for Euphoria with store copies. The KS Exclusive is immaterial for me. I find no extra joy in “I have something you don’t” and I suspect the vast majority of purchasers don’t either, although perhaps fear of missing out is a useful KS marketing tool.

  64. I’m a huge fan of the idea, but I bet much dislike publisher specific treasure chests. Bgg store Or other project add ons seem fine, and if something like the double sided board works so well, why not do it?

  65. To me the “exclusive” part is that I didn’t have to pay extra for them. I say do whatever gets more board games in people’s homes.

  66. I often enjoy kickstarting projects due to the exclusives I can get as a reward for taking the risk that the product will actually be good. In this case, I see no need for that, as you have proven yourself in the games published so far, removing much of that risk. Keep up the great work, and I can’t wait to kickstart your next project!

  67. To me kickstarter is about getting something created that, most likely, would never have seen the light of day otherwise. Or reached as large an audience. The rest is gravy. If you’d like to sell the “exclusive” bits and you think it’ll it help the stonemaier machine keep running then by all means do so.

  68. I can’t think of any reason for other players to enjoy the game the same way we were because we were fortunate to come across the campaign and they weren’t. Do it with confidence :)

  69. I can’t imagine Euphoria without the realistic tokens, and I don’t want anyone else to need to miss out on that. Go for the treasure chest idea!

  70. I really like the idea. Those components are so nice to play with that its a shame that someone who missed the kickstarter has no way of getting them.

  71. I like this proposed direction for the company. Too often have I had friends love a KS copy of my game and then become disillusioned by the fact that their game will never be of the caliber that mine is. I have also found some games after their KS only to avoid purchasing because all of the exclusives I would never own. I think that it is more than “exclusive” enough that we backers get these awesome add-ons for free, by helping to get the game published. I see no reason to not allow my fellow gamers to pay a little bit more and have the same enjoyment for quality that I am able to.

  72. I dislike KS exclusives, because I can’t kickstart everything. I’m going to miss a few, and I want to be able to get the full experience later if I did. I actually think the proposal is a great approach, as KS backers still benefit, but others can get the goodies later if they are willing to pay extra.

  73. I would actually would love it if you did this. I’m planning on buying copies of your games for my parents, and they would love the better resources.

  74. I like being special. But I like the idea of more gamers getting to have this stuff more – and the opportunity to help out one of my favorite publishers even more than that.

  75. I’m actually excited about this, because I want to be able to tell my friends that it’s possible for them to get Euphoria with all the special resources.

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