Yesterday, right in the middle of April, we announced our second major product of 2022: The Viticulture World Cooperative Expansion. In Viticulture World, each player balances the growth of their individual vineyard with the combined effort of all players to gain influence within the asymmetric continent selected for the current game.
Timing
Typically we only send one e-newsletter each month (at the beginning or end of the month), and it’s in that e-newsletter that we make big announcements. If there’s a new product, I’ll reveal it over the next 10 days, then there will be a few weeks before the preorder, which is immediately followed by shipping.
However, there were a few factors that changed the formula for this announcement: First, we reserved the early April e-newsletter for our April Fools products. Second, I’ve been thinking a lot about the announcement-review-preorder-fulfillment gap, and I wanted to experiment with a tighter gap between the reveal and the preorder. Third, because I had emphasized the April 13 announcement date so much in advance, when we recently realized that not all freight shipments were going to arrive in time for an early May preorder, I decided to proceed with the announcement anyway (in all likelihood the preorder will be in early June).
Announcement Day Reveal
Based on some discussions in my recent article, I decided to do something significantly different than normal for Viticulture World: I included the full multi-player rulebook for viewing and download right away.
This may not sound like a big deal–after all, it’s common practice for crowdfunders to make the rulebook available from day 1–but my normal approach is to reveal and highlight a different aspect of a new product day by day, culminating in the full rulebook reveal after 10 days.
The downside to the old approach is that announcement day ends up feeling like too much of a tease to many people, and I get asked a lot of questions to which I answer, “I’ll talk about it soon!” After trying it, I think I like this new method, especially since there’s still plenty of components to reveal in full detail during the daily design diary posts, as well as stories to accompany each.
Wine Crate
While the nature of the expansion was a surprise, the existence of it was not. However, one aspect of the announcement was a secret: In addition to Viticulture World, we’ve also created a an organizer box for Viticulture, designed from the inside out to hold all Viticulture components (core game and expansions, even out-of-print modules) in an assortment of 7 custom plastic inserts and accompanying lids. It’s called the Wine Crate.
In yesterday’s e-newsletter, I debated whether or not I should even mention the Wine Crate. I intended to fully reveal it today, but yesterday I didn’t want to distract from the expansion itself. But since the first printing of the Wine Crate includes Viticulture World inside the box, I thought was important to mention it in the announcement.
With the full rulebook available, I figured people would be plenty busy with it and wouldn’t focus on the Wine Crate until I revealed it. Boy was I wrong! Despite the wealth of topics to discuss from the rules, I’d say that at least 70% of the questions asked during yesterday’s livecast were about what I hadn’t revealed (the Wine Crate and solo play).
I’m think I understand the psychology behind this, but I’m still trying to determine what I can learn from it for next time. For the next product, I think I’d like to reveal the full rulebook again, and perhaps it’s just on me to focus the conversations on the information in that rulebook instead of specific elements that won’t be revealed for a few more days. What do you think?
Instant Dismissals
I posted the following in a thread on BoardGameGeek from someone who decided to share that they aren’t interested in Viticulture World, which resulted in a mix of comments ranging from “hard pass” and “huge disappointment” to those who are excited or at least curious. After seeing these types of instant dismissals on pretty much every board game project by any publisher on announcement day and out of concern for the state of the gaming community, I took some time to compose the following comment:
I’ve been in the board game business for 10 years now, and I’ve tried to grow a thick skin when I announce something I’ve designed (or to at least not read some comments). Even after all this time, it stings to pour my heart into a project only to see people instantly dismiss it. Mostly I’ve learned as a designer to simply not engage in such conversations–no good comes of it.
However, I’m not the designer of Viticulture World. That would be first-time designer Mihir Shah and designer Francesco Testini. These two worked passionately and tirelessly creating something they hope will bring joy to Viticulture fans around the world.
They’re also adults. They know that discussions like this are inevitable. They know that not everyone will enjoy or be excited about their creation. After all, Viticulture has been a competitive game for 10 years (and will continue to be so), yet Viticulture World is a cooperative expansion. It’s different, and you may have been hoping for more of the same. They get it, and I get it.
But I don’t get the point of threads and comments that instantly dismiss a newly announced project, particularly one that has completed production. Your fellow human beings Mihir and Francesco spent a year of their life creating this expansion for you, and after a quick glance at the box, description, and/or rules, you’re vocally done with it. How would you feel if you spent 12+ months pouring your heart into a creation, only to see someone instantly dismiss it?
I get that each of you are individual human beings with your own stuff going on. We all have our own preferences, insecurities, personalities, and motivations. You have every right to think, feel, and say pretty much whatever you want at any time. I’m not here to edit or censor you. And really, I’m grateful that you care enough about Viticulture to have any opinion at all.
Today is a really special day for Mihir and Francesco, so I want to (a) thank those of you who have shared your excitement and curiosity for Viticulture World and (b) thank those of you who aren’t all that excited by this expansion but decided to keep it to themselves–I appreciate the empathy, compassion, and kindness it took for you to do that.
An afterthought I had about this topic is that this message–especially the last sentence–isn’t limited to designers. It extends to creators of all types–designers, artists, the gaming media, etc. And even beyond that to any conversation where someone shares their excitement for a new game (or book, movie, etc). Of course, when real harm is being done, nipping it at the bud is very important. But that isn’t the case in 99% of these game announcements.
***
Those are my observations and lessons learned from our latest big announcement. I’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments below! If you’re curious about preordering Viticulture World or the Wine Crate in early June, you can sign up for a launch notification.
Also related: Mamas, Papas, and Pride
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64 Comments on “The Big News: Lessons Learned from Announcing Viticulture World and the Wine Crate”
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[…] have a few articles related to Viticulture World; several in April (here and here) and one in May about all-in bundles vs an ala carte strategy. The latter resulted in us […]
The sort of negativity and dismissal mentioned is the reason I no longer frequent BGG or Reddit. I have found that hearing negative opinions expressed so forcefully and vocally actually leads me to second guess my own opinions and makes me enjoy something I love a little less. And usually I want to come to communities to get more enjoyment not less. I try to only go to message boards for questions but even then there’s a risk, I had an awful experience on the Dune subreddit that has left a terrible taste in my mouth.
With some distance and without hearing it nonstop, it’s a little easier to reason out someone’s disappointment, or if it is a someone I hang out with in person at least I can just awkwardly wait until they’re done ranting and the conversation changes to something I can relate better with.
I still can’t help wondering how I ended up so weird that I am so different from the general board gamer crowd. I’d love to design a game sometime but I think I’m just too sensitive to handle the kind of comments you saw on BGG.
I’m really sorry that this type of behavior has pushed you away from BGG, Jev. Yet another reason why I wish this behavior weren’t so common there.
You’re not alone in this, Jev. I’ve also had horrible experiences on r/boardgames and annoying interactions on BGG. Just today I had a pretty shocking experience with the reddit crowd. I don’t understand what’s in the water over there. They’re super elitist. Don’t go there and try to talk about how great Wingspan is.
Thank you Mihir and Francesco for all your hard work and the love you put on creating this expansion so that we have lots of hours of fun with our loved ones. I personally can’t wait to put my hands on it and expand my collection with your fantastic work.
Keep up the good work.
People who pipe up to say how disappointed they are that others have created something must lead very sad lives.
We play a lot of co-op games and already own Viticulture and Tuscany, so we’re quite excited to see a co-op expansion coming out! We also like the idea of a global wine production theme.
Will we be able to preorder from the Europe store?
Kate: Absolutely, we’ll have the expansion available in all 4 webstores. :)
Warning to haters: When somebody instantly dismisses something, it usually says more about the person who does the dismissing than it does about the thing being dismissed❗
This applies to everything in life, including games. If you express your preferences and describe the experiences that drive your opinions, I’ll respect you and maybe even buy you a beer. But I only buy beers for adults who behave like adults.
Anyway, congratulations to Mihir and Francesco! I’ve already started telling everybody about the expansion and hope to get a copy for my birthday.
Did you consider announcing the expansion as cooperative from the start? I would imagine there is a significant proportion of viticulture players that prefer competitive games. It is understandable these players could have been disappointed by the announcement.
While I can’t speak for Jamey, the obvious problem with attempting to pre-empt potential disappointment with an expansion’s major departures from the original is that by the time you’ve listed all the big changes from the original that could possibly put some players off, you’ve got barely anything left to reveal once the official reveal date arrives.
Some players will be put off by co-op, others by having individual continents, others by having new red and blue cards that mix up genders, and by the time you’ve included all of that in your original “we’re going to be announcing a new Viticulture expansion next month” messages, you’ve not got much interesting detail left to reveal in the actual announcement.
Jon, most of my answer is in what rmsgrey has said here. At that point in time the only information I would have provided was “it’s a cooperative expansion.” And honestly, given how quick some people have been to vocally dismiss it for no other reason than that, I think they would have responded the same way to that very limited information as they have from the full information. But you’re right, maybe it would have helped some Viticulture fans start to have a frame of reference instead of being surprised. I guess I’m just not entirely sure why anyone would have created any frame of reference at all–there are lots of types of expansions in the gaming world.
I agree with the general point made by rmsgrey, but I don’t think the other things listed would put off anyone in the same way as coop vs competitive. I just wonder if the time between the original announcement and the details led to increased disappointment for this group of players, as they had built up a sense of anticipation. I also think Viticulture is a special case as it is a classic game that has been around for a while and is widely loved.
I don’t think you’re wrong, Jon. If I could go back in time, I probably would have said up front that the next expansion for Viticulture is cooperative (and just endured the initial wave of “hard passes” then instead of now).
As someone who spends a lot of time maintaining a fan site for Wingspan, I understand the pain of investing in something you’re proud of only to have it “instantly dismissed” by a vocal few who act that they already have it all figured out.
I’m not a psychologist, but it seems like this instant dismissal comes from a place of insecurity; a need to feel relevant and powerful by striking down something that challenges your preconceptions or may force you out of your comfort zone. Its like they’re trying to claim some moral high ground on the topic and it just doesn’t make any sense.
Everyone who’s worked on Viticulture, in all its forms, has done something that very few human beings will ever do. They’ve helped produce a board game that is available for everyone on the planet to play. Take pride in that and in the continued success of Viticulture and Stonemaier Games.
Jason: Thank you for Wingsplain.com, and I’m sorry if you’ve experienced people dismissing your hard work and passion as a snap judgment.
I think part of it is that a rulebook, by design, is an independent thing that should be comprehensible entirely on its own. It explains how the game works and in theory does so perfectly. If you were getting lots of questions about the rulebook, well, that would have been bad! But then with that being the main part of the reveal, it’s hard to then know what to ask questions about. Especially as you’re not the designer on this one so “where did you come up with the idea of doing X?” or “how did Y come about?” or “did you ever think about doing Z?” aren’t really questions for you. You’re the publisher, so the questions are inevitably about what you’re publishing that we haven’t seen.
To flip it around, I’m curious about what you *did* expect the questions on the stream to be about (other than wine and book recommendations of course!)
Good point! :) I was thinking that people had a lot of information about the game via the rulebook and they’d want to discuss it (not necessarily rules questions, but just talk about the wealth of information they had instead of focusing on the information they didn’t have).
People can discuss the rules, etc without needing the publisher in the conversation. For the people talking to you, it makes more sense to focus on the things where having the publisher in the conversation matters.
I’m surprised you were surprised about the solo play questions :) Solo is very popular these days and to me at least when I see a new rulebook, after seeing the first page, I start looking for the solo rules.
But in general I think revealing the rulebook on the first day is brilliant, it saves you most of the gameplay questions and pretty much puts the game out there without fully visually putting it out.
The best part though compared to 90% of other game reveals, it’s not “coming to kickstarter in 30 days” but instead “open to order in X days and coming to you this summer”. Love this and thank you again for not kickstarting games that don’t need it.
Oh, I wasn’t surprised that people were curious about the Automa solo mode; rather, the point was that I was surprised that I hadn’t already provided enough information about the expansion for day 1 conversation fodder. :)
Jamey, you constantly amaze me.
Thank you. And well said.
I am, how can I put this gently…?
I’m REALLY FEELING EXCITED about this expansion! Why?
A) I love coop games (at least when they’re done well 😋 -and I have high hopes on this!)
B) it has 3 if my friends highly interested in Viticulture World because of the co-op aspect -which means I can not only get it to the table more, but also with more people 💙
C) I mean, “Wine Crate”! I am definitely excited to have a nice looking storage solution for all my Viticulture shtuffs!
Thanks for your excitement, Kevin!
Another fine addition to the Stonemaier catalog.
I’ve got a number of Stonemaier games now, but Viticulture wasn’t one of the because I have a few wine/spirit games coming into my collection. However the co-operative expansion is probably why I am considering now to invest in the two. I enjoy cooperative games so this will be a winner for me. You win some and you lose some.
Hey Jamey and all associated with Stonemaier games.
Firstly, I want to thank you for constantly making excellent products. After my first dive into tabletop gaming about 7 years ago through Catan, my next game was Scythe! I fell in love with it and have now purchased most of your games. There are only a couple I have personally not connected with well but even those were made and developed really well. I love the time and care you put into each game, and of course those who help design and produce your games. I enjoy Viticulture and look forward to the expansion. I love games where I’m able to play solo, as well as with my gaming group. I also love cooperative games so I’m really looking forward to this experience.
Sad to hear that some people quickly dismiss some games so verbally and aggressively. Maybe just keep those thoughts to yourself, it doesn’t help anyone!
Please keep hold of the positive feedback from so many and keep doing what you do so incredibly well. There are enough bad things in the world, let’s at least keep this industry in the positive light and enjoy creativity the way it was intended without bringing others down. God bless you and your family.
Thanks Tim! I’m impressed that you jumped from Catan to Scythe, and I hope you enjoy Viticulture World. :)
Jamey – I love the fact that you have drawn attention to the negativity that seems to be plaguing the online community (not only in gaming). I’ve seen so much negativity as I see people impatiently wait for Kickstarter campaigns that are late due to the pandemic — or go and leave “1” ratings on BGG because they aren’t interested in a game or dislike a designer/publisher. I wish people would recognize the efforts of people creating these wonderful products and I wish people would spend more time talking about the products that they do like rather than talking about the items that they dislike… at least in a public setting. I was once taught the phrase, “Praise in public, correct in private.” I think criticism is welcome in the right setting, but people need to understand that not every setting is the right setting for criticism. Let’s celebrate people’s milestones!
Congrats to Mihir and Francesco! I’m excited for your expansion to Viticulture. I appreciate the efforts in making a co-op version of a game that I love that also looks to have some development decisions included that were intentionally made to be more inclusive to people playing the game. Thank you!
Well said, Mike. I love that quote (the version I’ve heard is “Praise publicly, criticize privately”). Though at its hard, I want people to know that there’s plenty of room for constructive discourse everywhere–this topic isn’t about that. Rather, it’s exactly as you said–this is about the health of the gaming community itself.
Multi Academy Award winner, Francis Ford Coppola, director of Apocalypse Now and The Godfather trilogy, is quoted as saying that he loves cooking so much more than film making. On the one hand you you spend an afternoon in the kitchen, drinking wine with friends as you prepare them a meal, and after the night is over they’ll tell you it’s the greatest food they’ve ever tasted. On the other you spend 2 years of your life, pouring blood, sweat and tears into making the greatest 2 hours of cinema you can, and then people will tell you how much they think it sucked, and exactly where you went wrong.
Great analogy!
I don’t have any motivation to post an “I’m not interested” thread. Think about it for a second. How many games / expansions do you actually get excited about and purchase each year. Now think about the thousands you don’t. Imagine wasting your time posting thousands of “not interested” threads each year.
The arrogance of needing to post on a BGG thread that you’re “not” interested – is that supposed to be persuasive? Why do I care about a single person or meat popsicle’s opinion on something neither of us played. Preach it, Jamey!
But it’s That Person!!! Of course it’s vitally important to you, me, and everyone else to know their opinion or how could we possibly go about our lives in such suspense?
We should all be thankful that whatstheirname has deigned to share their opinion on this expansion when their life must be so busy giving unsolicited opinions on every product out there!
You have to understand that $Insert_Name_Here is the center of everyone else’s universe and everyone cares about their opinions.
I love Viticulture and I love what this expansion promises to bring to my table.
Is it June yet? *need to preorder intensifies*
Vote from a well-worn shrink corner:
Based on the rationale that dismissive comments are, like children’s misbehavior, often a bid for attention, ignoring them may be the most likely route to their extinction.
Please tell me. This is important. Please tell me that you will revisit the Sideways YouTube campaign you released with the first edition of Viticulture, and the Wine Crate will come with wine glasses.
I had fun filming that ridiculous video. :) And we still make and sell the wine glasses! https://store.stonemaiergames.com/products/viticulture-wine-glasses-x4?_pos=1&_sid=4b0757e2e&_ss=r
What about a wine partner who could sell themed wine for each Stonemaier universe?
We’ve actually been exploring a partner to make a Viticulture-themed wine blend. We’ll see if it works out! :)
Hey Jamey, a client of mine has great relationships with a range of small Australian wineries and helps them find export opportunities. This could be something he could help with, and you know, Aussie wine is pretty great.
You can contact him through here: https://7000islands.com.au/partners
Thanks for all your hard work.
Thanks for that connection, John!
Glad to know! Purchase made!
Viticulture is my favorite game (with the Tuscany expansion modules) but being a competitive game, it’s hard to get my husband to play a game of it with me; he prefers cooperative games. This has me excited that I might get him to play this with me more! Also, I’m thrilled at the inclusiveness with the Red and Blue cards! Keep up the great work!
I personally cannot wait for this. Viticulture was one game very early on I was able to share with my wife and was one of the first complex game she was willing to try. It was our compromise. She loved wine, and I loved board games, now I love wine and board games and she loves wine and tolerates some board games hah. I feel that games that have a cooperative ruleset are often more easily accessible to family and friends who may not be gamers. Better yet, an expansion that is purely designed only to be cooperative. One aspect of SM games that I truly respect is the support that is given to games that have already been released, and that support is not just “more stuff”, but rather, a new angle, or in addition, a way to enrich the experience, such as the wine crate. Looking forward to this and getting this game back to the table with my wife, and hopefully now, also my kids. Thanks again! – Matt
I appreciate your excitement, Matthew! :)
In retrospect (easier to say after the fact is done) you could have posted only about the wine crate. You could have explained a lot about it and explain how it would nest the next viticulture expansion without talking about the expansion itself. You could say that 2 versions of the wine crate would be available, one without the expansion and another with it. This way you would have address the wine crate now and the expansion later, so when you announce the expansion the big box details would have been clear and would not take any attention away from the expansion.
As for the expansion, not everyone likes coop games, so it’s okay for them not to like it. I’m very enthusiastic as it would take a game I know in a brand new direction. Maybe you could have spoiled that the next expansion would be a coop, stating that it would be similar to Orleans invasion (very accurate comparison), and prepare people ahead, but even then before announcing it, it’s not possible to know how the community would react.
Erik: Just to clarify a few things, there is only one version of the Wine Crate for the first printing, and it includes Viticulture World inside the box. Also, I’m not at all saying that it’s a problem for someone to not be excited about this product (or any product). Rather, I’m doubting the value and questioning the lack of compassion and empathy that accompany such instant dismissals.
Heya,
Stonemaier got big last year. And the bigger you get the more people get to know you and the more opinions there are.
And big companies get more flak because some people think that big company doesn’t deserve to be so big.
Just happens. It’s crap to read for people involved but the internet atracts opinions.
Keep it up.
Roy
I’m always astonished with the way people wish to vocalize negativity, seemingly an ability that is all too easy in an online setting. Similar to dismissal or general negative feedback I’ve encountered to my projects over the years, or even complaints I receive working in customer service, I tend to focus my attention towards those who are eager and excited to talk, rather than focus too much energy into the former. As you said, everyone’s opinions are important, but, seeing as some people have made up their minds already, with perhaps little or no room for helpful dialogue, energy should be given to those who wish to either involve themselves in constructive conversation, or are just.. you know.. excited! I can only imagine the rollercoaster of emotions a designer and other team members go through during an announcement and release. I hope you have received plenty of nice feedback and dialogue during this announcement. While I personally am excited for another SM title, I still have to play Viticulture first!
Dom: I really like this, and I need to strive to do it more: “I tend to focus my attention towards those who are eager and excited to talk, rather than focus too much energy into the former.”
I will admit that I did say I wasn’t interested in it in a thread, but I know cooperatives do not go over well for us. It wasn’t a dismissal of the expansion. In fact, I can see myself mentioning it to others, but knowing that mechanic alone, I know it is not an expansion for me. Every game cannot please everyone and there are some people that love that style of play. So, take heart, I will continue to enjoy Viticulture and Tuscany in the same way I have for years now.
My partner and I were having a discussion to something sort of related to this problem. The media is constantly quick to broadcast the negative and it’s extremely rare to hear anything good these days. It’s easier to be destructive or negative rather then be constructive or share anything positive these days. People are allowed their opinions for sure but for some reason find it there are many appear to be just reluctant to provide any form of constructive feedback. I read the FB post about how the designers for this expansion were brought on board for this project and thought it was super awesome! I really enjoy hearing these stories of people that aren’t really in the this industry being fully welcomed and given a fair shake to try it out. I don’t have Viticulture, but am super excited to try it (and the new expansion)!
Regarding the “Instant Dismissals”, I think my attitude is the old mantra “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all”. There are lots of products that come to market that I don’t want or like – but saying so doesn’t, imo, help anyone (myself included). Why waste your time on that… instead make a comment on something you love and you’re excited about. That’ll make you feel good – and someone else as well.
And maybe I’m being a bit over simplistic. I appreciate there are places and times for criticism and dissenting opinions – but even those can be done with a degree of respect and consideration for others.
Mike: In 99% of cases, that absolutely echoes my philosophy (I think you’re wise to add the last sentence to cover the other 1% too).
I am not one that typically gravitates towards co-op games, but I am quite excited for this. I have thoroughly enjoyed Orleans Invasion in the past, and your reference to that made me take notice. One thing that surprised me with the announcement was the intention of a shorter time window between the reveal and the preorder in hopes of keeping the momentum and excitement high as the preorder was made available, but then seeing that the preorder won’t occur until June. I know that freight shipping has been hard to predict, but have you considered doing the preorder when you originally planned (in May), and just clearly communicating that the game will take slightly longer than normal to fulfill? Even with the few extra weeks to ship than normal, it’s still a lot quicker of a turn-around for preorders than most companies provide. Those are just my thoughts!… and I can’t wait to give Viticulture World a try!
Jeff: That’s a great question. We briefly considered it, but whenever we’ve done that (added a gap between the preorder and shipping), chaos ensues! :) That’s a slight exaggeration, but it just leads to a lot of unhealthy conversations. We’ve found that everyone seems to be the happiest when we can ship to them within a few days/weeks of the preorder.
Thank you for this! Especially in the days of virtually anonymity on the Internet, it’s good to be reminded to just be nice and to think of others.
Thanks Amy! I particularly like that last part. I fail at this all the time, but I feel the best when even just for a second I put myself in someone else’s shoes before commenting on the internet.
How does the wine crate work with the Collectors Edition of Viticulture?
There’s some info about it on the Wine Crate page, but I’ll recap here: If you have the 2014 Collector’s Edition box, you have enough room for everything except Viticulture World, so I would recommend that you buy the expansion without the Wine Crate.
I love Francesco Testini. Watching his playthrough during Tang Garden Seasons streams, you can see he dedicates a lot of himself to the gaming hobby. I wouldn’t worry. The negative tend to be loudest, but the positive are silently louder…. through our wallets. HA! Can’t wait for this!
I completely agree. I’m really happy with his other new game, Momiji.
I really appreciate the way you’re handling this, and the approach you take to running your business, being party of the gaming community, supporting other publishers and designers, and sharing your love for board games. We’re big fans and hope you continue to stay encouraged! You’re doing a great job!
Thanks Elisa!