The Truth About Digital Board Games – Stonemaier Games

The Truth About Digital Board Games

Two years ago, I signed a licensing deal with a company called The Knights of Unity for a full-AI digital version of Scythe. Yesterday, now in conjunction with Asmodee Digital and after several extensive rounds of beta testing, the game released on Steam Early Access.

It’s been an interesting journey, so even though I’m still very much a novice in this digital realm, I thought I’d share what I’ve learned along the way. Parts of this post were influenced by a great discussion I had with developer A. Gerald Fitzsimons, who also happens to be the designer of an upcoming tabletop game called Banker of the Gods.

What do you mean by “full-AI digital version”?

In this post when I talk about digital games, I’m referring specifically to full-AI versions. That means the digital game knows the rules of the board game. In Scythe Digital, when you decide to attack another player, the computer knows the rules of combat and helps guide you through them. The AI also acts as digital players you can compete against.

This is in contrast to physics-driven digital games like on Tabletopia and Tabletop Simulator. Those games are meant to simulate the feel of having a game on the table in front of you, but the Tabletopia version of Scythe doesn’t know how combat works. You need other human players to use these types of games.

I like that both options exist. The physics-driven platforms are great for playtesting and demos, and if you know the rules to the game, it can be a way to connect with people around the world. They’re also a LOT faster to implement–Tabletopia created the digital version of My Little Scythe in weeks.

There are also digital apps that augment tabletop games, though some of what I’ll discuss in terms of budget and scheduling applies to them too. And there are AI platforms like Board Game Arena, Yucata.de, and Boardspace (which Euphoria is on) that simulate the board game experience on the web-based platforms but require human players to function (no AI opponents).

Why would you license your game to digital? Won’t that hurt tabletop sales?

My primary goal for pretty much any decision I make at Stonemaier Games is how to bring joy to more people. This applies to digital games in several ways:

  • They can help people learn the game more easily than reading a rulebook.
  • They allow people to play a game a lot more often than the tabletop version because it’s faster and easier to set up.
  • They help people play with friends and strangers around the world.
  • They invite people to a world they may not otherwise experience if they don’t play tabletop games.
  • They’re more affordable than tabletop versions.

As for actually undercutting tabletop sales, the data I’ve seen indicates that digital games actually increase tabletop sales. I think that’s because they help reduce the barrier to entry, giving people a chance to find something they love and bring it to their table.

Please note that I do not consider digital games to be a revenue-seeking endeavor, at least not for Stonemaier Games. It’s important to me that the developer of the digital game–more on that in a second–is profitable and that we break even, but it’s exceedingly rare that a digital game port makes a lot of money.

How do I pick a developer?

I’ve actually tried for years now to have Viticulture made into a digital game. Two different developers–both very nice people–have spent months working on it, with no final result to show for their efforts.

This experience has made me much more likely to work with a company (even a small company) in the future instead of an individual. Also, it simply may not be worth it for that individual, as they’re risking a lot of time for what could be a minimal reward. Companies typically have their risk spread out over multiple projects, and they seem to have a better grasp of budgeting and timeframes.

Recently I’ve been searching for a company to finally make Viticulture Digital a reality, and I’ve been requesting this information:

  1. An estimate of how much up-front investment they would need from Stonemaier Games based on an 80/20 back-end revenue split (Stonemaier gets the 20%).
  2. An estimate of how long development will take.
  3. An estimate of when they could start working on the digital game.

There’s a lot more to discuss, but I’m starting there. The companies I’ve contacted–companies that specialize in digital ports of tabletop games–are:

  • Asmodee Digital
  • DigiDiced
  • Handelabra Studio
  • Acram Digital
  • Playdek
  • Temple Gate Games
  • The Knights of Unity
  • Fay Games

That’s certainly far from an extensive list, so if you have any recommendations, please mention them in the comments.

How much does it cost?

While the biggest cost is simply paying for developers’ time and expertise, there are other costs too: graphic design, music, art assets, 3D models, etc. The total cost can vary greatly based on the game, but the number I’ve heard from several companies is $100,000.

Now, that doesn’t mean you need to pay $100k out of pocket. That’s where the 80/20 back-end revenue split comes into play. That means for every $10 of profit the game makes, the developer gets $8 and you get $2. This seems to be a pretty common split.

As a result, the up-front cost to you can be much lower–somewhere between $0 and $20k. For Scythe Digital, we basically just paid for the music, with Asmodee funding the rest of the costs.

Please keep in mind that you having a game isn’t enough for a developer to say yes. They will want to see that there is a significant audience for your game in terms of quantifiable sales of the tabletop version.

Could you use Kickstarter?

Kickstarter’s rules have always been a little vague about digital products. In essence they say that you must be the creator of the product, and if you’re using the project to hire a developer, you’re not really the creator. I think it’s all in how you talk about the game–if you talk about your digital “team” and how you’re the team leader, you’re probably fine.

There have been successful digital port Kickstarters, though it’s an uphill climb due to the high development costs in relation to the low reward prices. Evolution successfully made it happen last year thanks to their method of using exclusives to push backers towards higher reward tiers (only 127 people chose the no-frills $4 reward).

What other details do you need to figure out?

Once you pick the developer you’re most excited about and start to talk about the budget/schedule, there are a number of topics for which you’ll want to state your preferences. These include:

  • Are you primarily looking for a one-stop shop that handles the art, music, graphic design, etc, with you serving more as a consultant (this is what I did with Scythe Digital), or are you looking to be heavily involved in the process?
  • What platform do you want the game to launch on, and what platforms would you like it to expand to? Scythe Digital is starting on Steam for PC, and it will expand to iOS and other formats.
  • How do you see expansions and promos working in the digital game? For example, do you want to start with the core game and add expansions later as DLC (downloadable content)?
  • What’s your priority in terms of single-player against the AI, local pass-and-play multiplayer, and online multiplayer? My personal top priority is single-player against the AI, followed by online multiplayer.
  • How detailed of a tutorial do you want? Like, a separate tutorial that actively teaches players how to play, a tutorial that helps players as they’re thrown into their first game, or simply a digital rulebook you need to read to understand the rules?
  • How much do you want the game to resemble the tabletop version? Remember that you’re crowding a table’s worth of content and information into a screen that might be as small as a phone. Also, you can do certain things in a digital game that aren’t possible on the tabletop, like animations. If you want to see a game that combines these factors extremely well, I recommend Playdek’s Lords of Waterdeep.
  • Who will distribute the game? You might have a developer who is really good at programming games, but are they good at selling them? Learn about their weaknesses early on and perhaps leverage partnerships to address them, like what we did with Asmodee Digital and The Knights of Unity.
  • How do they plan to price the game?
  • Do they have an “early access” strategy that is fair and equitable to early adopters?
  • Will the digital contract prevent you from offering other forms of the digital rights to physics-driven platforms (e.g., Tabletopia) and human-required platforms (e.g., Board Game Arena)?

What else have I learned?

I’m excited about Scythe Digital, just as I’m eager to move forward with Viticulture Digital. Charterstone Digital is also in the works.

But I have to say that I’ve learned not to expect much from these digital games. None of them has ever remained even remotely on the original projected schedule. So while I hope that they’ll become a reality and be great, my expectations are very low. This has helped keep what could be a stressful process relatively stress-free for me.

This is, however, the main reason why there’s very little chance I would ever make a tabletop game that relied on a digital app. I don’t want to sit on a completed game for months or years while waiting on the app.

What are your thoughts?

What do you think about digital ports of tabletop games? Do you have any favorites you’d recommend or any insights you have from experience working with (or as) a developer? As a consumer, is there anything you’d like developers and/or publishers to know?

***

If you’re curious, Scythe Digital is available here.

If you gain value from the 100 articles Jamey publishes on his blog each year, please consider championing this content!

146 Comments on “The Truth About Digital Board Games

Leave a Comment

If you ask a question about a specific card or ability, please type the exact text in your comment to help facilitate a speedy and precise answer.

Your comment may take a few minutes to publish. Antagonistic, rude, or degrading comments will be removed. Thank you.

  1. Hi Jamey,

    I am interested in your opinion as a publisher. I own a physical copy of Scythe (which I like very much!) and I would like to play remotely with friends that also own physical copies. A clunky but cheap way could be to point video cameras at our boards and share that over Zoom and manually reconcile the state on each side. A neater, but more expensive and complicated way, could be to use computer vision to identify and locate pieces on the board and render the game state on the other end, possibly with Augmented Reality (e.g. Tilt Five or Meta Quest 3).

    My question is: Suppose I were to turn the second idea into an application, what would be your position as a publisher regarding copyrights, royalties, licensing, etc.? Suppose the solution required both ends to own a physical copy of the game to work (which would be ensured because the vision system would only detect and locate actual physical components), would you expect the application to license every game that it would support?

    It feels to me that the grey area is around digital representations of component and arts from the game. One the one hand, if the AR system is to produce Holograms or digital representations of the components then it must have a digital representation of them somehow, so that might fall under copyright issues. On the other hand, if all participants are required to own a physical copy of the game and cannot play without owning them, they somewhat already paid for the work and it is not too different from showing the components on Zoom. It would also foster more sales because each end need to own the game!

    What do you think? And if you expected licensing, how much could that be, let’s say, for a game like Scythe?

    Thanks!

    Erick

    UPDATE: As a cross-reference suggested by Jamey for readers, this post would suggest no licensing fees and provides some additional context and answers: https://stonemaiergames.com/third-party-accessories-and-stonemaier-games/

    1. Erick: Thanks for posting this here. We have a little experience with Augmented Reality via the Mad King’s Steward app. Following the guidelines of our third-party agreement, the developer created an app to help score Between Two Castles using AR. What you’re describing sounds in a similar realm, though crucially the app was fine because the app did not provide a digital representation of any components in the printed game or replace any gameplay content. Nothing was required of us to provide. I think there may be something similar for Scythe Automa, but I haven’t used it.

      1. Thanks for the quick answers. I think an easy way to avoid the copyright issues would be to provide the names of cards but not the associated art or text descriptions, so that users would have to look them up in their physical copy.

        I also gather from this post that the ratio of effort/investment vs returns seems much better for physical games than digital versions, so I will take that as a much needed warning in deciding whether or not to invest the time to make it work.

        I have also looked at Board Game Arena. I see Wingspan there but not Scythe. I might instead decide to invest my time enabling remote play with minimal needs for hosted servers, especially since there seems to have been a community backlash against the acquisition by the Asmodee Group. The preliminary idea would be to base the replication protocol for game states on Git, originally developed for version control of source code. That could be a cool project to do with students I teach to.

        Anyway, thanks again for the quick answers and detailed blog posts, I really appreciate your active involvement with the community. I just bought Wingspan and Pendulum as token of appreciation (and promise of fun evenings with my wife :-)).

        Cheers,

        Erick

        1. I think that’s on the right track. I’m not sure that an app would need to do anything with the cards, as in the situation you describe, each player has their own cards, right? At most, if you want the app to control what players draw, the app could generate a number (all cards are numbered).

          Keep in mind that if you’re intending to distribute or sell this, you’ll need to get in touch with me to sign the third-party accessory/app agreement (it’s easy to do). I’m curious to see what you create, and I hope you have fun with the process! :) Thanks for checking out Wingspan and Pendulum!

          1. Ah, yes. I had forgotten every card has a unique number already!

            Sure will get in touch if this gets anywhere beyond the initial excitement phase of idea generation :-).

  2. […] The Truth About Digital Board Games […]

  3. […] seems to me that digital games continue to play a small role in tabletop purchase decisions (and to help people learn how to play games), but the bigger impact is that the widespread availability of digital ports is simply letting […]

  4. […] with other Wingspanners from around the world and welcome people to Wingspan for the first time. Like with any digital game, part of the hope is that the digital versions will invite at least some people to purchase the […]

  5. It can cost a few hundred thousand dollars to develop an app. No boardgame developer/publisher wants to pay for that up front.

    1. I’d love to see Jamey comment on how those negotiations go. The economics of producing game software for profit is at least as daunting as for producing cardboard versions. That’s why my games are all for free.

  6. Great post Jamey! I know this is from pre-covid, but I imagine everything still rings true in this new day and age? Has your attitude towards the business of digital changed at all now that more tabletop gaming has started to occur online?

    Taking a quick glance at your catalog of games, and the different digital platforms you offer them on, why have only some on Tabletopia (Euphoria), others only a standalone products (Charterstone), and others that cover both (Scythe, Wingspan)?

    Additionally, have you ever considered offering digital copies of a game packaged with physical copies? Seems like that might diminish the revenue for the digital product, but it would be a win to the customer. Is there a business model where this makes sense?

    1. Great questions, Mike. I would say that the post still rings true in this day and age. The biggest thing the pandemic opened me to was the value of platforms like Board Game Arena (human players are needed, but the platform knows the rules of the game).

      The reason some of our games don’t have full-AI digital versions (or partial AI like BGA) is that developers haven’t accepted them as projects (or they’re in the works, which is the case for Tapestry and Red Rising).

      The digital developers with whom we work need to get paid for the games they make, so they haven’t offered to give them away for free in the physical copies. However, several of them have offered promo codes, and we incur the expense of including pieces of paper with those codes in the matching games.

      1. With BGA, as I understand it, the products are community developed? You just have to turn over the licensing rights. Or do you shop around for a BGA specific developer? With Asmondee now owning BGA, does that complicate the process of getting games on there at all?

        This also begs the question, do you find a developer per platform (Tabletopia, Standalone, BGA, etc.) since they are different products? Or do you use the same developer for say, the Tabletopia version and the “full-AI” digital version?

        From context, it sounds like all the digital deals you have are licensing deals. Do you see value in a model where you simply contract a company to deliver the digital version to you, and you publish it (retaining all revenue, etc.). That model might afford you the freedom to package digital copies more freely, but puts the weight of support, etc. on your shoulders.

        1. With BGA, my experience has been that I reach out to them to say that the rights for a game are available, and they get back to me a few weeks later saying that they do or don’t have someone who wants to implement it. I haven’t seen any complications from Asmodee’s ownership.

          We send all of our products to Tabletopia to implement on their platform, and our agreement with them is non-exclusive. So we then also try to find another developer for the full-AI version (to whom we license the digital rights).

          For multiple reasons we haven’t pursued the model you mentioned. It’s too expensive up front and rarely lucrative enough on the back end, digital projects generally miss their deadlines by a mile, it’s not in our wheelhouse to maintain or distribute digital products, etc.

  7. The distinction this post draws between “full-AI” and “physics-driven” digital games is interesting. I wonder if these concepts appear in the contracts you sign when you grant digital rights licenses?

    My interest stems from a passion project I’ve been (slowly) working on for a few years, at the intersection of two lifelong loves (board games & AI). It’s a website that makes it as easy as possible for a programmer to create an AI for a given game, and then allow that AI to play other user-created AIs and see whose strategy performs best over time. I’m close to launching a prototype with five public domain games, but sites like that already exist (albeit badly – for example, aigaming.com). What I’m most interested in creating is a place for AI exploration in games that are deep and popular but have had little research done on them, outside of the walled garden of each developer who implements the game on a given platform. The initial games I have in mind are the ones you’d expect – Catan, Carcassonne, Ticket To Ride – but my dream would be to eventually cover a vast surface area of games, including Stonemeier’s.

    What I’m unclear on are licensing / trademark concerns. I wouldn’t be creating a way for two humans to directly play a game online; but I would be creating a way for two proxies (the AIs they create) to play the game. I can’t tell if this would violate digital licensing agreements or not – my game implementations would use no official images or assets from the game, but would refer to it by its trademarked name. The game & AI implementations would exist only as source code, and then as some sort of loose visualization of the game after a match has been played (using no official assets).

    I’ve Googled this topic extensively but have no firsthand experience in digital licensing and what it specifically covers. I’d love to know if the digital rights licenses you’ve used would cover what I’ve described above. Ultimately my goal is to spur overall interest in these games and specifically build a community around more robust AIs.

    1. Ross: That’s an interesting question, and it sounds like a really neat project. I actually don’t think any of our contracts currently cover that, though by default I think our current contracts wouldn’t allow it, given that the full-AI rights are clearly defined in those contracts. However, I bet there are lots of full-AI companies that would love to have an AI system they can just buy instead of creating a new one for every game they digitally implement.

      1. Thanks for the response Jamey – that lines up with the sense I got from reading your post. When you say “the full-AI rights are clearly defined”, are there any examples of that definition you can share (as in language from a contract, as opposed to your general definition in the post above)? I’m curious where digital rights end – if I implement a game in code but create no mechanism for users to play it, and the source code is publicly available (say, on Github), is that already an infringement of that license?

        1. Hey, I’m not a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure you’re not bound by the terms of a contract you’re not a party to. The operative concept is “fair use” of copyrighted material. Under that concept, anything you do for your own use is probably fair. If your web site allowed users to create an AI for a game
          which has a digital implementation but no AI, the AI itself is an original work.

          1. I appreciate you both humoring my flailing around in search of quasi-legal advice – my budget of $0 doesn’t allow much room for consulting actual lawyers. Disclaimer – if I make any grossly dumb statements below, it’s because I really have no leg to stand on in this discussion – I’m trying to learn as much as I can.

            I hadn’t thought of the “fair use” angle, which is interesting. It seems like a catch-22 that the AI might be an original work, but is dependent on a digital implementation of the original work, which would be impermissible once I provide it for use beyond my own.

            Let’s see if I’m following – you’re saying that if an inventor/publisher has granted no exclusive full AI digital rights, that a system to allow others to develop those AIs might be allowed, pending approval of the inventor/publisher?

            Jamey said in a comment:

            “There’s no cost to bring a game to BGA; if you don’t see a game there, it’s likely because the digital rights for that game are tied up elsewhere. That was the case with Wingspan.”

            So in that case, where Monster Couch has full AI rights to Wingspan, there’s no way that a system to create Wingspan AIs would be allowed, without additionally reaching agreement with Monster Couch (and they likely have no interest given they’ve already developed their own AIs)?

            I think I was hoping for some sort of magic loophole where I could implement games at-will and hide behind the shield of: it’s neither human vs. human or human vs. AI online play, it’s AIs playing AIs on one of my servers. But if rights are defined by what is created (e.g. full AI) and not the specific mechanism of play, then it seems like securing game-by-game approvals would be unavoidable (and surely a non-starter for the big name games like Catan, Carcassonne, etc).

  8. Hi Jamey, I’m a software engineer looking to start a company digitizing games. Would you recommend I digitize some games before I reach out to companies to pitch them on my prototype? Or should I just not even put any work in before hand? I think i can impresss people with what I can create solo and without funding.

    Also, i’m confused on the revenue share. You mentioned an 80/20 split? That sounds exciting for me, but why would I as the developer take the lions share of the split in perpetuity?

    Thank you I want to forge a new path for my self by combining my passion and talent as a programmer / developer! I think i was made for digitizing board games so all info is very helpful

    1. Chris: I think Dave could have some great thoughts for you on this topic.

      Proof of concept is always incredibly helpful when you’re trying to gain someone’s trust. So yes, absolutely, I would highly recommend that you digitize something to show companies what you can do.

      As the developer, you take the lion’s share of the split because you put in the work to implement the game with no (or minimal) investment from the publisher. You deserve it! :)

    2. Morally that’s correct; but legally you can copy games at will, as long as you don’t use the name, artwork, or original text of the rules. The actual embodiment of the game is protected, but the essence of the game is not.

      Anyway, I’m interested to shoot at your concepts when you’re ready to discuss them. For simpler games, both the implementation are straightforward. For complex beasts such as Jamie develops, the digital implementation is very challenging, and a decent AI is the stuff of PHD theses.

      1. Hey Dave, shoot me an email at hi@chrismoscoso.com

        Sorry for the late response but I think I missed some emails from this blog. I’ve had a tumultuous year, changing jobs and moving to Miami Beach.

        I’m about to start my digital board game endeavor. Would love to hear more from you and Jamey as well

  9. I agree with most of what you write, but I would add an intermediate category between “physics” and “full AI”, where the rules are understood and enforced, but the game can only be played among human players. This is the category that the Boardspace.net implementation of Viticulture fits into. Making good AIs for complex games like Viticulture and Scythe is a large and difficult task, over and above implementing the rules.

  10. Hi Jamey, thanks for this article! It’s very informative.

    How do you handle things when a digital board game is released but doesn’t turn out as well as you hoped?

    1. Vincent: That’s a great question. Typically we use it as a learning experience to help us determine which developers we want to work with in the future. The quality of the developer, their level of commitment, and their community engagement all have a huge impact on the future of the game.

      1. That makes a lot of sense!

        If you felt a digital release was hurting the game, do you keep it? What would stop you from finding another developer to reimplement the game?

        1. The game is much bigger than just the digital version; I wouldn’t say that a subpar partner or digital version hurts the overall game. We have contracts with our developers that are tough to get out of unless they completely give up on the game.

          1. Ah, okay. I’m actually a dev looking to start making games—just started running into the licensing/contract restrictions. I understand why they’re there, but at the same time it’s frustrating.

            Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions! It’s been very helpful.

  11. What I’d like to find out more about is how and why and what’s the cost of bringing a game to Board Game Arena. Wingspan on Steam works perfectly well solo but it’s frustration when you try to find partners for an online game. What BGA does best is bringing random online people together. What should be done, say, to bring Wingspan to BGA? Is it a question of money, contractual restriction, or just someone’s will?

    1. Kim: There’s no cost to bring a game to BGA; if you don’t see a game there, it’s likely because the digital rights for that game are tied up elsewhere. That was the case with Wingspan.

  12. Thank you so much for writing about this topic. This is super informative and helpful. 

    My husband and I are trying to build out a digital platform (similar to Tabletopia but with full AI scripting) and are very interested in licensing your games. We’re guessing since you wrote this post, you have already found someone to produce Viticulture?

    We talked to Joe and found out all of your digital rights belong to other companies. We were a little confused about how Tabletopia and Tabletop Simulator have been able to license them. Is Asmodee Digital or Monster Couch working with those platforms to put out Scythe, Wingspan and other games? Also, do those agreements hold for future games you create or only existing games?

    We really appreciate you being so open and transparent with how you run your company and how you have been willing to work with digital platforms in offering your games. 

    Our hope would be that our digital platform can get your games into the hands of people who would never play otherwise. 

    1. Thanks Natasha! That’s a great question. The key difference between Tabletopia/TTS and the full digital versions of our games is AI. Tabletopia is just a physics engine, but it doesn’t know what the pieces do (unlike the full-AI digital versions). We have agreements with Tabletopia and TTS for our games, and those agreements don’t conflict with the agreements with have with our full-AI digital partners. The agreements are game by game–we don’t have any universal contracts with any digital partner.

  13. When you agree on a revenue sharing model with a digital game studio to create apps for your game, which tools do you use to monitor app sales?

  14. Sorry punching in on an old post.

    I became aware of Scythe last year when I got it for a Christmas gift and have loved it every since. Of course Covid three months later and I have hardly gotten to play it with anyone other than my wife since.

    I am baffled and frustrated on a couple levels this years as I try to gift a digital versions to friends to take it online, and more so as I read this post about Jamey’s experiences.

    Putting aside that it is impossible to give Scythe as gifts the way I can with other digital products, it seems there is no pure digital version of Scythe available for purchase. It’s either monkeyed with and/or it’s a service. Unlocking factory cards? Come on. Perpetual subscription accounts while spamming me with other games?

    It’s also hard to figure what’s out there. I have been through reddit and this is the first place I have seen the Physics vs AI digital versions articulated or acknowledged. It seems like the IOS/Android Asmodee should be crossplatformed with the PC/Mac Steam but there seem to be problems there (bugs, crashes, lags, derived exploits etc.) It’s all very muddled.

    It also seems that Jamey can’t just do what he wants with his games digitally; hands tied, under contract, developers not interested or willing to take the risks, etc.

    As is, it seems like Jamey’s games can get lost in the fog and are almost intended to, at least on Tabletopia. It seems like the digital versions Jamey’s games take liberties with the game making it not quite equivalent to the board game. It seems like that 80% going to the developer goes into non-critical aspects at the cost of fidelity, stable coding and whatnot. (and to be clear I also want to preserve the art as it is in the board game, but can’t see how that should end up at stake whatever the case)

    And then I think back to when I played Asobrain’s (I am pretty sure illicit) Flash version of Catan years back. Don’t hang me. It was perfect. When the official finally came out ages later I paid for it and it was garbage. Clearly money spent trying to make it pretty with uncompelling animations but play was bloated, tedious, buggy and got rules wrong. Even the AIs were weak compared to Asobrain. And Asobrain (from what I can tell) was just two guys from Scandinavia who made a perfect browser driven Flash version of Catan (and other games) and hosted multitudes all in their spare time without even taking advertising revenue.

    In this light it seems like the model could be flipped with a relative handful of solid guys in-house. Seems like it puts the power back in Jamey’s hands, removes hurdles and fragmentation, preserves fidelity and compatibility and makes a one-stop digital destination for Stonemaier games. Whether Stonemaier does the actual hosting or that is a separate cooperating entity it seems like they would still be ahead vs only 20% of every digital sale.

    I am saying “seems” a lot because clearly I am missing something. Everyone feel free to tell me I am naive. This probably all boils down to you use the App Store cause it’s the App Store and it is legion and that fragmentation and problems are bound to happen when you try to make more options available in order to reach more people.

    1. Michael: I think you make a bunch of great points here! I’m sorry if you haven’t had a good experience with our digital games. I’m actually really happy with Tabletopia, as they make it very easy to get polished versions of our games on their platform. But it definitely gets more complicated with us having each of our full-AI games with completely different developers, and we have no control over how long it takes them to create, update, or expand our digital games.

      1. Sounds like a thicket. Good luck!

        And to clarify the Steam AI is quite slick and well done, as I am sure you have heard. :)

  15. I find myself confused why publisher’s don’t have a larger DLC presence on Tabletop Simulator. As I understand the service, TTS will create a DLC for no cost, and then all sales are split 50/50 with the publisher. This seems like a positive income marketing mechanism. I see Stonemaier Games has great coverage on TTS but many other publishers almost shun or are even hostile about the platform.

    1. TTS has limited time and resources to put games on their platform. For example, I’ve asked them for years to put more of our content on TTS, but their queue of games has prevented them from adding more than just a few of our games.

  16. Hello Jamey. This is the article I needed. Thank you for writing it!
    Considering the costs of making the games to gain revenue, are you saying developers would get a better return on investment from board games vs digital games?
    Would that apply to educational games as well?

    1. Amina: Well, for this article, I’m specifically referring to digital ports of tabletop games, not all digital games. I think there are plenty of digital-only games that have done very well. It’s a crowded marketplace either way, so either way you have to do something special and unique.

      1. Sorry for the confusion. When I wrote digital games, I meant digital board games. To rephrase the question: From your experience, which would bring a better return, physical board game or digital board game? How about faster return? Which is easier to produce and make available to consumers?

        1. Amina: Thanks for clarifying. By definition, a digital board game is a game that first existed as a tabletop game. Either way, you have to spend time designing the game and sourcing the art, graphic design, etc. In my experience, after those steps, the time it takes to manufacturer a tabletop game is much shorter than the time it takes for a programmer to make a digital version. You can sell a tabletop game for much more than a digital game.

          1. Though I should add that if money is your primary focus or motivation, I wouldn’t make a game at all. I would make a game because it’s something you’re passionate about, because you enjoy the creative process, and because you want to bring joy to others. If your goal is to make money, you could be sorely disappointed by the results.

          2. **I tried to reply to comment below but there was no reply button**

            I do have a physical board game that is educational and has successfully completed multiple sessions of field testing. I want to put in out there, but because of the current pandemic, I hear “loud whispers,”😆 encouraging me to distribute the board game digitally first and distribute the physical copies later. Because it’s science-based, I figure a benefit to a digital copy is that updating the information and the graphics would be easier than with a physical copy but now…I’m wondering if distributing the physical copies is better in the long run. Ive been flip-flopping for weeks😅. Should I still manufacture the physical game first?

          3. I would do both: Go to print with the tabletop version, and in the meantime, have a developer start working on the digital version.

  17. I keep hoping Stonemaier games will appear on BGA or Yucata!

    Viticulture, My Little Scythe, and Scythe would be my first picks. I know my wife would like to see Wingspan on one of these platforms.

    I purchased physical copies of Port Royal (plus the expansion), Tokaido, and Jaipur after playing them on these sites a bunch, and I considered buying several others.

    Digital versions are perhaps the best form of marketing for board games. They allow try before buy. Virtually all my gaming friends prefer games in person, which means buys are likely when someone really likes a digital version.

    1. Our full-AI digital contracts create some conflicts, but we’re working on getting Tapestry on Board Game Arena!

      1. Doh! Okay. Maybe My Little Scythe (with Pie in the Sky) too, if that’s not bound up by other contracts?

        Thank you for all the great work you’re doing to bring good games to people!

  18. I guess it is a good idea to already negotiate the terms for implementing a future expansion when you negotiate the terms for the base game. Jamey, is a revenue split of 80/20 common for an expansion, too?

    1. Juma: I typically wrap up the entire game (including expansions) in the digital deal, with the revenue split unchanging.

  19. You mention data supports that digital implementation supports game sales. My hunch agrees with that but I haven’t been able to find any data myself. Can you provide some examples? Thanks!

    1. I would say that it’s more of a hunch for me too at this point. I’ve heard it anecdotally in regards to Ticket to Ride, and I’ve experienced it myself personally with a few games, but I’m not sure how much of an impact it has. I’m fairly confident that the digital sales don’t cannibalize tabletop sales, though.

      1. As a consumer I can attest to the fact that digital versions don’t cannibalize physical versions. On the contrary, most of my recent physical purchases are because of a digital version. Then of course Boardgame Arena is now exploding within the lockdown period worldwide. I have learned 3 new games already through BGA for which I all want physical copies (La Granja, Sushi Go and Stone Age).

        I’m sure games get more notice on BGA than on TT or TTS (which already has SM games) because of the accessible entry point. Yes, there probably will be a few individuals who only play online and never subscribe or buy (which typically is not your gaming groups who likes the physical and social aspect of tabletop gaming). But I’m sure the majority tabletop gamers sees digital versions as the “demo”.

  20. How do you feel about fans creating a Free (as in speech or Libre) digital board game version of a tabletop game? This allows the community to take part in the development and provide useful things like translations, ADA accessibility compliance and other features that proprietary game software developers may not find profitable.

      1. Thanks for your time! Consider the case of a board game that is adapted to digital, but the adaptation ends up being a worse experience of the game. The players who love the board game are frustrated with the software developer because the developer has left many bugs unfixed and does little to satisfy the requests of users giving constructive feedback. The developer/publisher has new board game projects and no longer considers supporting this game a priority.

        What agency does a board game creator or the devoted players have when the digital developer is neglecting the players of your game?

        1. As long as you get permission from the company/person who has the game rights, you could explore it in digital form. If you don’t have written permission, though, it would be a copyright violation to use that content elsewhere.

  21. The article is great. Thank you for sharing, I hope in the future there will be more attractive digital games.

  22. Thanks for writing this post. I love board games and am an iOS developer. At a super high level… how long/complicated were the agreements that you made with developers? Did the developers provide the contract? I’m looking to license a game that I love in order to develop and publish a mobile version. I’m having trouble finding a short and straightforward licensing agreement though.

    1. Eric: The agreements I have–most of which were provided by the developers–aren’t all that long or complex.

  23. Jamey, do you have any idea how many apps one can realistically sell in year 1, 2 etc. in relation to the total number of board games sold?

    1. Juma: That’s really hard to tell, as I think it depends on a number of factors, and we only have 1 digital game so far (and I don’t have the sales data for it). So I don’t think my guess will be anywhere close to accurate.

    2. Juma,

      For years I used to track video game revenue statements and analyse public data to get a rough but fairly accurate estimate. They are not allowed to make Steam sales public but some times it comes out, and other times they reveal it without really saying it. Also I’ve doubled checked it with insiders. Some of my friends have big successful games on Steam. I’ve confirmed estimates with them, and they also know other developers and share info privately.

      I just analysed Scythe Digital. It has 404 reviews and 21,388 followers. It has approximately 30,000 to 40,000 owners by my formula. I feel that SteamSpy’s new formula is not as accurate and it estimates 50-100 thousand owners. If it was part of a humble bundle then it could have thousands of users that own it but never played it as they got it as a cheap add-on. It’s been out a year and it has had 5 sales ($16, $10, $8). It’s normal price is $20.

      A conservative guess would be that it has made $350,000 to $450,000 in sales since Sept 2018. Asmodee Digital would roughly get 70% of that and Steam 30%. Asmodee would get a percentage, then the developers (Knights of Unity) would get a percentage, then Stonemaier Games would get the smallest percentage. The digital version of Scythe could make another $350-$450 in the next 5 years unless Asmodee devalue it’s price by constant putting on sales and keep entering it in Humble Bundles.

      However Scythe has a large ready made, active and passionate fan base. Most board games don’t. Colt Express Digital by Asmodee has made approximately $10,525 since 2016. Mysterium about $25,00 to $30,000 since January 2017. However they probably have Google Play and Apple sales too. One developer would cost about $45k to $100k per year. Games typically have a few developers, artists, animators. Games take a year or a few years to make. Even ports can take a year or more.

    3. There’s not that much of a relationship between sales of a boardgame and sales of an app. You can have a boardgame that does really well with an app that does not so well and vice versa. Apps operate in a videogame space which is totally different from a boardgame space in terms of exposure and consumer behavior.

      Page hits on app game pages on App Store and Google Play can reach hundreds of thousands of visits per week even for an app that has been out for years. It’s hard to imagine a boardgame listing getting that many hits outside of a rare event.

      If you’re just curious about sheer app numbers. It’s 10s of thousands and up for a successful boardgame conversion.

  24. Any news on the iOS port? I’ve been pretty eager to play it on my iPad, but I haven’t heard mention of it in nearly a year.

    1. I haven’t heard about it in a while either, John. I’m still hoping for it, though!

  25. Hah, so cool to read this post. I work for https://rawg.io (the video games database) and we are having the contest with Asmodee Digital right now. I contacted them a few months ago initially and got pretty interested in digital tabletop games (as I have never had enough patience to choose, buy and play the real thing, apart from Jenga :-D ). So I tried several games published bythem and quite liked it! Scythe is next up on my list. Hope to see more of your games going digital in the future.

  26. Out of curiosity… do you know why Knights of Unity used different 3D models than the boardgame? Saxony looks especially strange, and Rusviet has wierd arms.

    Or is that a question better directed at them?

      1. Interesting… Is the airship similarly affected? I’ve been designing some laser-cut inserts and using my own models made from measuring the minis I have, but I’d like to check my work against a more authoritative source. May I use the airship model to do that? And along similar lines, might my physical-component-sourced models be useful to KoU?

        1. Ian: I appreciate you asking, but while the airship models aren’t owned by Stonemaier, they’re proprietary (we spent a lot of money on them), and we don’t share those files. I’m not sure about your second question.

          1. I guess I’m not sure how we would use them? I’ll wait to see when that image is approved–it might make more sense then.

  27. Hi Jamey,

    Great read as usual.

    I am not a fan of your use of the “full-AI” term. Sure you took the pain to give its definition and it makes sense. But the issue is that when there is an AI, there has to be rules enforcement too.

    So there are 3 levels of digital versions:
    1) virtual tables
    2) rules-enforcing apps
    3) apps with AI

    With the exclusion of Happy Meeple (my platform https://www.happymeeple.com), all online platforms stop at stage 2. It is much rarer for apps: there is almost always a basic AI in apps.

    An interesting split I would like to make with type 3 digital versions is:
    3a) apps with basic AIs
    3b) apps with competitive AIs

    I think most type 3 apps fall in the 3a category. Sure enough AI is extremely time-consuming and very few developers have any experience (and it helps to be a strong player too). So all in all, it is not surprising that most AIs are not very good.

    I mentioned my online platform above. On top of competitive AIs (that take 50% of developing time I would say), we also offer tutorials for every game. So what we do is very similar to regular apps with the advantage of online platforms (ranking system, already existing critical mass for online play, chat, achievements, etc.). I doubt that we will have the opportunity to work together: it is probably very unlikely as we concentrate on 2-player light/casual games (like Lost Cities, Hanamikoji…). But if you ever release a good quick 2-player game with simple rules, give us a call! Solo games might also of interest to us in the future.

    Keep up the good work! I have just read your 2018 report. You are on the right track. So I won’t worry for you.

    Always a pleasure to read your articles. Thanks for that too!

  28. […] Digital Games: Scythe is a start, and Tabletopia and Tabletop Simulator are great, but for the reasons mentioned in this article, I’d really like to offer more digital ports of our games. We currently have development […]

  29. […] on the pros and cons of digital versions of board games, check out Jamie Stegmaier’s writeup on his experiences. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the topic. Do you feel digital versions are worth it? Let […]

  30. Hi Jamey, following the previous question, what about Scythe on iOS? I’m eager to play it in my bed… lol

    1. These are all great questions…for the developers! :) I’m really not involved in the digital games. I sure hope so, though!

  31. Hi Jaime! Here is my bi-annual question…any word on Viticulture iOS? :) My Delta 6A and I are eagerly awaiting its arrival. :)

  32. […] The Truth About Digital Board Games: Here I discuss why I’ve chose to pursue contracts with various developers for digital versions of our games, as well as the my thoughts and discoveries about that process. I think it may have received the attention it did because people thought it was going to be some tell-all revealing that digital board games are a sham, but sometimes the truth is positive! […]

  33. […] um post no seu site em junho deste ano, quando foi lançada a versão beta no Steam, o criador do game Jamey Stegmaier falou sobre o […]

  34. I saw that you guys had used Tabletopia before. What I was wondering was did you find that a lot of people used the mobile functionality that comes from the super premium developer plan?

    1. Thanks for your question! I’m looking through my Tabletopia statements, and I think I just have a basic designer plan with them. For Scythe, for example, my statement is broken down into Scythe’s free demo setup (575.6 hours played in Q2 2018), Scythe’s premium setup (713.2 hours played), and the Steam DLC (129 hours). I don’t see a mobile option. Have you tried asking Tabletopia? I bet they would share those stats, especially if they provide a strong selling point for them.

      1. Thank you for the reply! That’s really interesting that the premium setup got more playtime. Especially considering the subscription model of tabletopia compared to the purchase model on steam. I’ll make sure I ask them.

  35. CGE Digital did a wonderful job adapting ‘Through the Ages’ to a digital platform. I don’t know if they’re worth considering (if you haven’t already)?

  36. PCFiend.com - Digital adaptations of Viticulture and Charterstone board games in the works says:

    […] Successful or not, these are both good games that I’m glad to see come to digital. For those interested in the insider details of making a digital board game adaptation—at least from the cardboard designer’s perspective—I highly recommend Jamey’s blog post. […]

  37. Hi Jamey,

    I’m an app developer who specializes in boardgames. I’ve done Hostage Negotiator and Baseball Highlights 2045 in the past 3 years.

    I really very surprised to hear that the “standard rate” is 80/20 in the developer’s favor. You didn’t mention it in your article, but Apple/Google and the other stores take a hefty 30% sales commission, so the 80/20 actually becomes 56%/14%.

    I have always had a hard time convincing any of my prospective partners to turn over their IP for less than the stores make for their commission.How do you feel about only making about 14% on each sale? Is it still worthwhile? Obviously, yes, but why? And would your reasons/attitude change if the game were an older one which was not being reprinted very frequently any more?

    1. Peter: The 80/20 split is calculated after Apple/Google take their commission, so it’s still 80/20 of net revenue.

      My motivation for that 20% is almost purely to break even on anything I spend to create the game (and in the off chance the digital game is a mega hit).

      If the game were an older one, I’m still interested in a digital version.

  38. I think that this is a fantastic direction for Stonemaier Games to take.

    (Sorry, this is a bit long-winded)

    I only started my board game obsession at the beginning of the year and I’m trying to soak up all the information I can. I spend far too much of my spare time researching games, reading reviews, watching Youtube videos on games and thinking about what games I’d like next. My wishlist is in a constant state of flux.

    Money is a little tight so I don’t have that much to spend on games. I’ve got a nice little collection going, but it is little. I’m proud to say that Viticulture EE was the last game I bought and is my favourite so far.

    I also have a handful of games on iOS and Android devices. For some of those, I also have the actual board game – the physical box – and for others it’s something I’m interested in and want to try out. I’ve also played a few games on Tabletopia.

    From my experience, I get far more out of the games on the mobile devices rather than ones on the desktop. I don’t really have any experience of playing an AI-enabled desktop version but I think I have an understanding of how it would feel to play.

    The best example I can give was when on I was on a couple of longish flights recently. Both times I played a few games of Carcassonne & Pandemic, both of which I had the actual games at home – but I wasn’t at home, I was on a plane. I wanted to get my fix of games right then and there. And I could.

    When I’m at home and want to play a game of Viticulture solo, for example, I’d rather get the board out than sit at the PC.

    But if there was a version I could get for the tablet, that’s a whole different story.

    I know that’s a very simplistic view of things, as there’s a whole background of development and cost and return, but as a consumer, that’s what’s important for me.

    1. Thanks for sharing your experience, Phil! This is exactly why I want to have more digital versions of our games (and portable, not just on Steam).

  39. Have you seen any games successfully build a game that requires both a board and a digital application?

    1. Andrew: Absolutely! Mansions of Madness second edition is probably the most well known (and ranked), but Alchemists and the Unlock series are also up there. There’s an upcoming detective game that relies on an app as well. There are others I’m not thinking of.

      1. Awesome, I’m checking those out now. Thank you!

        I’ve been building my own app-driven game and have found your blog and book to be incredibly valuable for a first-timer who plans to go up on Kickstarter. I’m close to launching, but it always feels like there is more preparation to be done.

        I too grew up in Chesterfield County, so your RTD article is neat to see too :)

  40. On a totally different and somewhat related note, I absolutely love the soundtrack to Scythe so far.

  41. Viticulture is going to take a team of 8 (2 devs, 2 artists, 1 designer, 2 qa, 1 PM) 6-8 months to make. Your devs will average $70k per year, artists $40k, the designer $50k, qa $30k, and the PM $40k. So $185,000 minimum right there. You’re going to need another $10,000 for music, sound, and graphic assets. And that figure for devs doesn’t get you very good ones, if we’re being honest.

    That being said… please make Viticulture happen!

  42. Hello Jamie,

    To be honest after testing during the closed beta sessions (I gave some feedbacks of course), I’m not seduced by the way they translated the interface of Scythe and its controls, especially because I understood that it will reach the mobile devices in the future. There are ton of great “user experiences” in mobile tabletop games and I strongly believe that the controls and the way the information is presented has a big impact on the appreciation of a game. For example I really enjoyed Mysterium, Carcassonne, Splendor, 7 wonders, Catan on my android phone despite that most of those games will never reach my shelves.
    Obviously those games are easier to translate than something like Scythe, but I’m naturally more encouraged to play something that I find easy to play and reactive to my inputs that something heavier like Terra Mystica (I have the mobile version as well, but I’m still struggling to understand the rules, etc.).
    These days, a (video)game that requires physical efforts and time to execute an action feels older and more complex than it is. For example, my friends thought that Scythe(board game) was very complex and slow because the set up alone is quite long, but when they started to play they realize that the pacing is relatively fast, and unfortunately I feel there’s still a way to go before the developers of the digital edition reaches that milestone where the player feels that the user interface is there to make his life easier and not the opposite.

    The irony and the dilemma of an adaptation of Scythe as a mobile (or PC) game is that you already made a very elegant and smart user interface for the board game. This interface is so bounded to the game and its identity that making some modifications in order to accomodate it to another medium can create some backlash. But even if I can be conservative on some aspects, I genuinely believe that it’s absolutely inevitable to be iconoclast in order to create the best user experience of Scythe for mobile devices. I’m aware that it isn’t an easy task but achieving that would make a very big difference in terms of attractivity, sales and new comers. In this state you’ll get the fans, but you can get much more.

    I wish you the best for your next steps in this digital world.

  43. This is a phenomenal list of what makes a good board game app.

    >None of them has ever remained even remotely on the original projected schedule.

    Software Development is an odd thing to schedule in some ways.

    Exploration is a huge part of some projects, and you can pick how long you’ll explore up front, but depending on who has approvals, that’s not necessarily going to land you somewhere specific. How efficiently you can explore and how flexible you are on the solution there can be a huge factor in costs.

    While taks like building buildings do have schedules and deliver on schedules (sometimes), they are much more well understood tasks with far more constraints on what is bulit.

    Software, especially novel things like games, relatively have very unclear lists of what needs to be built, so accurately scheduling that is impossible at the start of a project like porting Scythe to the digital realm without a framework somewhat constraining the possibilities.

    >How much do you want the game to resemble the tabletop version?

    As a mobile developer myself, I’d challenge people who are looking to make products to ask “How can we let this idea flourish within our constraints?”. Scythe is a fairly successful board game, one that has sold multiple expansions successfully. Board games that are smaller may be served with less ambitious approaches. If you are overly stringent about look and feel, especially at a high level, that may greatly increase costs and lower possibilities.

    A less costly but still enjoyable format people may wish to consider is a 2D “moving pictures around the screen” format such as you see with many board games on mobile. This may sell well and meet the market demand, dispite resembling 3D video games less. Look on iOS for Terra Mystica, 7 Wonders, Jaipur, Smash up, and others. Another advantage of that approach is that it can use signifigantly less battery, and keep power consumption down. Some great game ports can be a “warm” affair on a laptop. For many people, this is even preferred over big 3D versions.

    1. I want to highlight this quote from your comment, MJ, as I really like it: “How can we let this idea flourish within our constraints?”

  44. Hyped for Charterstone Digital, as I didn’t buy it because I’d have trouble getting the same group together repeatedly (bonus points for replayability without a recharge pack). As for Viticulture and Scythe, I have the former in physical form and will soon pick up the latter, so I’m not sure I’m up to also buying the digital version. I do have a few friends who live far away and that I’d like to connect with online, so maybe that’ll sway me into buying it with them, eventually.

  45. I think there’s a lot of people in a similar situation. This article may give them realistic expectations, and reduce their frustrations. Really great article.

  46. […] of getting a digital version of Scythe made.  The post is quite interesting, and can be found here.  The post mentions that Viticulture Digital is in the works.  Scythe went to Steam first […]

  47. Hi Jamie, love the tabletop game! Also when are the metal mech expected to be available for purchase. Coming back to the topic, when would the iOS app be available, I would to love to get it when I am travelling alone. I left PC gaming a long time ago…

    1. P.A. We haven’t quite started production on the metal mechs yet, but we’re close. :) As for iOS, I’m hoping by the end of 2018.

  48. I love that digital ports exists. I’ve only gotten to play Scythe face to face once, so I’m looking forward to at least playing against AI.

    1. I would highly recommend getting Scythekick for Scythe on the table. It makes it easy to setup and play against multiple automas! The automas are also hostile to eachother but you can disable that.

  49. As a software engineer, I wish more people knew how difficult it is to estimate software tasks. Something you think should take five minutes might end up taking five days, and vice versa.

    1. Preach, brother!

      (although experienced developers should know enough to say “somewhere between six months and two years, make sure the budget holds”)

  50. What I would love in digital Scythe:

    – Faction-specific music
    – Animations for workers/character/mechs
    – Professionally-made VO for the characters
    – Painted/custom-paintable characters & mechs
    – Metal minis with the glorious thumping sound when placing them :)
    – Each turn advances a day/night cycle rotation
    – Faction-specific structures

    Probably lots of other things I can’t think of at the moment

  51. My primary medium for gaming is electronic which is predominately PC. Tabletop games have become a passion of mine the last three years and I try to find time to play whenever I can although we have a gaming group once a week. Which means I need to play solo most of the time.

    The Scythekick app on iOS has been a god send because it shows exactly how the Automa will move. The rulebook for automa movement is still confusing to this day. Which brings me to the point that I’m sad to hear that you likely won’t invest in digital companion apps for SM games.

    I understand there are two camps in the tabletop world about digital app requirements for boardgames. Today I cannot imagine Mansions of Madness going back to a player being the DM. My opinion to designers would be to use companion apps where it will enhance the experience (more cards/music and ambience) and also the possibility that it can turn 2-x player games into 1-x player games. But the app should never take the focus away from the actual board.

    I am enjoying Scythe and Viticulture on Tabletop Simulator as it removes the setup time of the table and especially when I’m playing solo. I actually use ScytheKick whilst playing solo in TTS. I’m in two minds about Scythe Digital (but I have not played it yet). I love Pandemic on the table but hate the digital iOS version. It feels so “automated”, fast and unpersonal.

    I do hope that in future you use companion apps to enhance the experience but not make it the focus point. Thanks again to SM for excellent entertainment and I cannot wait to see what’s coming down the line!

    Ps. Please ask Berserk Games to hurry up with adding th Wind Gambit to Scythe on TTS..

    1. Rouan: Well, I should clarify: I don’t want to publish tabletop games that cannot be played without a digital app due to my scheduling concerns. That isn’t the case with ScytheKick, which I agree is excellent (it’s not directly related to Stonemaier, but I like seeing developers make cool things for our games).

      I think there are some amazing games that use apps, but for as few games as my company releases, it would be a monumental risk to publish a game that relies on an app.

      As for Beserk Games, I’m waiting for them to implement Tuscany Essential too! :)

      1. If one just wanted a companion app to use in a player dialog with AI on a small number of cards, might it work for prototypes to: use an app like Recorder Plus to record the AI voice with pauses between active voice. Players speak during pauses. Then one could email copies of recording to prototype testers. Crude, but do you think it might work? That way, one could find out player reactions before deciding whether to invest time and money in a real digital companion app.

  52. Joe: I’m certainly open to those sites implementing our games, though they don’t check off as many boxes as the full-AI digital versions.

    1. Based on the games that exist on yucata.de and the game play of Viticulture, I would think it’d be a PERFECT fit. (at least insofar as vanilla or maybe essential V go).

    2. Regarding Yucata.de: it costs nothing, but it needs a volunteer developer who wants to develop the game in his/her free time. Also there is no money to be earned, because Yucata is a free and non-commercial site.

    3. From the perspective of someone who wants a venue to play boardgames via the internet, I would absolutely love you to port your games to BoardGameArena. Yes, I can play Viticulture on Tabletop Simulator or Tabletopia but a rules-enforced website is a vastly different experience, and I much prefer the non-physics-based interface of BGA even though the presentation is more simplistic. But above all is the number of players. BGA is literally crawling with players, and finding a pick-up game there for the popular titles is very easy. I’m certain Viticulture would be a very, very popular title there.

      The same can’t be said for all stand-alone apps. Though the Ages has a very large amount of open-game multiplayer traffic (as I’m sure Scythe will as well), but there are some great games with great apps where the pick-up traffic is virtually and sadly non-existent. It makes sense, given that a site like BGA requires just one login (be it the more limited free or more comprehensive paid subscription version) for multiple games, whereas each app is its own walled garden. The app has to be a blockbuster (eg TtA) to support a big player base that can spawn a decent pick-up game constituency.

      I wish there was a way that boardgame app developers could tap into a central matchmaking system but there isn’t at the moment and I doubt there will be unless a lot of developers and publishers got together and pushed for it So that’s why I’d love to see Viti on BGA – and quite frankly as many games as possible on it. And I do and will STILL buy apps of the same games their AIs, which as you’ve said are great ways to learn a game. But returning to a by now familiar theme, they’re hit-and-miss for pick-up multiplayer.

      Did I mention how much I’d love to see Viticulture on BGA? Oh yeah – I think I did I’m sure I’m not the only one.

      Congratulations on and thank you for your brilliant games, and I hope I’ve given you some useful consumer perspective.

      1. I’m certainly open to Viticulture finding its way onto BGA, Marc–I just need someone to implement it for us in an official capacity.

        1. Jamey, do you know if having your game on Boardgamearena increases or decreases the sales of the IOS/Android/Steam version?

          And do you have more detailed stats/figures/sources regarding the increase in sales of the physical board game once being playable digitally?

          Thank you!

          1. Juma: That’s a good question, though I’m not equipped to answer it. Does anyone here use Boardgamearena? If so, have you ever board the full-AI digital version of the game after playing it on Boardgamearena?

            At one point I did see the Ticket to Ride stats, but it’s been a while–I don’t have a link.

        2. One more question:

          Did you help making the UI and/or AI for the Steam version of Scythe? Making a decent AI is pretty hard and I am wondering if I as a game designer would have to invest a significant amount of time to help create a decent AI.

  53. Have you considered sites like Boargamearena.com or Yucata.de or boiteajeux.net? I know I saw Euphoria on boardspace.net. I really like these sites for games with asynchronous play, as I can make a move thet check back later. I imagine games cost less to create on these platforms, but may have smaller audiences, and perhaps provide less revenue. Curious to hear your thoughts.

  54. I don’t know a lot about most of these developers, but I am familiar with Handelabra and Playdek. Handelabra made the digital version for Sentinels of the Multiverse, and it’s super great. I love it.

    I didn’t actually know Playdek made digital board games, but I do know they’re working on Unsung Story (link below). Unsung Story started as a game by a different company and they basically let it fall apart. Playdek bought the rights from them, and the KS went from probably the worst run Kickstarter project I’d seen to easily one of the top 10. I haven’t actually seen their work, but their communication, transparency, and honesty are top notch. To be clear, this means that I paid money to a different company (Little Orbit), and Playdek paid Little Orbit for the right to develop this game and then give it to me for free. Neat.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/littleorbit/unsung-story-tale-of-the-guardians

    1. Tim: That’s awesome to hear about how Playdek turned around Unsung Story! Thanks for sharing.

        1. Oh crap. You’re right. Playdek was the original developer and Little Orbit bought it.

          Woops. I did a dumb.

  55. Were there any studios that you spoke with that would have worked with a lesser revenue split with a larger investment in the development of the game? So if you could contribute $80k, they would have had an 80/20 split in the other direction?

    1. I think something closer to that might be possible with a higher up-front expense. We just haven’t been in a position to take on that risk.

See All Comments

Discover more from Stonemaier Games

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading