I try my best to be abundantly transparent with information about new products leading up to a new preorder (like yesterday’s launch of the Red Rising Collector’s Edition). I share the design process, every component, the gameplay (even the playable game itself on Tabletopia), rulebooks, reviews, playthroughs, how-to-play videos, and more.
But there’s one piece of information that seems to generate quite a bit of curiosity that I don’t reveal until the moment the preorder goes live: the price.
Today I’m going to delve into why I wait to reveal the price despite so many people asking about it advance. Let’s start out with the answer to that question for Red Rising:
As you can see here, there are many elements to this price. It isn’t just the MSRP–it’s also the preorder price (and how it compares to the MSRP), the Stonemaier Champion price, and elements that aren’t immediately visible like the shipping cost and the MSRP of the retail version ($40 in this case).
So why couldn’t I just figure this out before I announce the the product so you can budget for it weeks in advance? Here’s the truth: I think a lot about price for months leading up to the preorder, but there are too many variables to solidify the price instead of maintaining flexibility.
Here are a few factors and fresh information that could impact the price leading up to the preorder launch:
- other projects: New games launch on Kickstarter and in retail every day, so I get fresh data in real time about what other creators are charging, how consumers are spending, and how crowded the preorder market is this week for similarly weighted games.
- reviews: While I don’t consume reviews about Stonemaier products, I closely follow mentions on BoardGameGeek and the Facebook page for the product. So I have a pretty good idea if the reviews are generally good or more mixed. This can definitely impact the preorder price I choose.
- buzz: I can see both anecdotally on social media and via objectively (preorder launch signups, BGG followers, FB group members, etc) what the “buzz” is for the game compared to previous product launches. Unless it’s off the charts, I’m usually inclined to lower the preorder price a bit so it isn’t a barrier to entry to those who are on the fence.
- random: Random stuff happens, and I like the flexibility to account for it. For example, until last week, our webstore didn’t display the Champion price under each product (it’s a 25% discount on everything on our webstore). But now it does, and that definitely impacts the value proposition.
- instinct: While MSRP follows a formula of sorts, preorder pricing is much more nebulous, and I often end up relying on gut instinct. What feels right? What feels fair? What feels like it’ll be appealing to consumers while covering all the sunk costs we’ve incurred to bring this game to life?
This flexibility is often to the customer’s benefit. I understand and appreciate that some people have a very precise gaming budget, and if that’s the case, I’d simply recommend overbudgeting for what you don’t know, and I can combine that by providing the maximum amount that the price might be. If you budget $80 for a game that actually costs $50, you now have $30 you weren’t expecting. I genuinely appreciate the flexibility you offer me when I can continue adjusting the price until the last minute instead of etching it in stone before I’m ready.
Also, aside from flexibility, we avoid revealing the MSRP for retail products to retailers before the product launches because the second we do that, some retailers will start to list the game for preorder even if they don’t have other important pieces of information. Plus, while I’m fine with retailers accepting preorders (for the standard edition of Red Rising in this case, as the Collector’s Edition is only available from us), I think it’s fair for retailers to wait until the publisher has opened preorders before the retailer does so as well…and that doesn’t happen if they have the MSRP.
The Red Rising Collector’s Edition will remain at the special preorder price through March 6. The quantity is limited, because we’ve already made this product–in fact, it’s due to arrive at fulfillment centers in Australia and the UK in a few days, followed by the US and Canada in late March. I’m incredibly excited about this game, and I invite you to join the preorder!
If you’re a fellow creator and have any thoughts to add about why you may or may not announce the price in advance, I’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments below. Now that consumers and backers know about this, I’m also curious to hear your thoughts and expectations about creators revealing preorder prices before the preorder launches.
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29 Comments on “Price: Secrecy, Flexibility, and Patience”
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I think too many people get hung up on price….yes, I know that most people have limited gaming budgets but then it’s just a matter of priorities. It’s not so much about how much a game cost but rather how much play you get out of it. Even the most expensive games are “worth it” if you get enough minutes of enjoyment out of your experiences playing it. Long before the pre-order goes ‘live’ people know if it’s for them or not. With Stonemaier’s track record & the Automa play system the only question for me is how much will I get to spend on other games for the year because I know I won’t be disappointed in yours.
It’s fair for retailers to wait until the publisher has opened preorders before the retailer does so
I don’t mind not knowing the price until the preorder day. However, I find it a bit frustrating that the RRP in my country (Australia) was not known until the distributor updated their website today which was after the discounted preorder price ended.
Jamie, do you have any control on how RRP is set in another countries?
The Australian retail price seems quite a bit higher than in the USA.
US$40 = ~AU$53 using the current FX rate. add 10% tax and the price is ~ AU$58 compared to AU$70 RRP.
Any reasons for the higher price?
Thanks 😊
Val
The MSRP we set is $40 for the retail version, which we communicated to distributors worldwide last Tuesday. However, the “R” in MSRP is for “recommended,” so distributors in various regions can change the price a little bit. That seems like a pretty big difference, though, so we’ll look into it.
Thank you Jamey for taking the time to respond. And thanks to you and Stonemaier games for always being transparent!
Cheers
Val
Thanks for the explanation Jamey. Maybe it would be good to know the price slightly in advance but I think it adds another layer of fun to the revealing process of choosing and buying the game, especially hearing the process you’ve outlined that you go through in the final week. This is the fourth game/expansion I’ve been able to buy from you in this way (the others I own were already released). Each time I’ve been hoping it was released at a price that I felt was right and each time it has been. I was worried with this one that the price would be too high because of all the collector’s edition upgrades, which I felt were nice but might justify the extra cost—but with Champion discount it was a good delivered price so was an easy decision. I’d have been disappointed if the price was too high, leaving me wanting the retail version and having to wait a long time for it!
Hi Jamey,
I agree with almost everything you and Stonemaier Games are doing. You’re just getting about everything right on spot, and I like how you handle preordering, information, reviews, and everything. You are the role model for publishers in my mind.
But on the price part, this is one aspect where I respectfully disagree with you. This is just one single person’s opinion, but please let me explain why I strongly disagree with you on this one.
Never, ever, before in board gaming have I encountered this amount of stress in getting a game. The price is the main factor in this, but more specifically, combined with the relatively small preorder window in place as well.
This is surprising to me, because everything else seem to aim towards helping the customer to make an informed decision. Reviews are “gated” in a way to make it fair for everyone, but still leave plenty of room for customers to check the reviews, considering how well it may fit them, and make an informed and thorough decision. Why isn’t this the case with the price as well?
I do understand your arguments in this post, I really do, but releasing the price at the start of preordering is just very late, compared to having at least a day in advance to think about it.
In my case, I wanted to order one for myself, and one for a friend. I have a realtively large budget for board games, but my friend has a limited one. And while I don’t have a strict budget, I still don’t spend infinite money on board games, and especially not on “lighter” ones (for some reason, not sure why).
Both of us had read up on the game, and I tried it on Tabletopia to make sure this was a game I would enjoy (though, just readin the rulebook made that very clear). Still, I wouldn’t spend $80 + shipping for this game, not even the Collector’s Edition with extra nice components and a nice insert.
Now, if the preordering was not a limited one, this would have been fine. I get to see the price and I can think about it and make a decision. Now, however, I have a very limited time frame to do so. Yes, you say that it won’t sell out in the first couple of hours, but you also say at the same time that it might sell out on the very first day. Now, take into consideration that this can mean an even more limited timeframe since people are living all around the world. For someone, he/she might have the preorder starting right at bed time, and have to make decision quickly after the price is revealed. That’s not a nice situation to be in.
For me, I had my evening planned out and the release was made at the end of my work day so I had about 15 minutes to make a decision. I was not too happy about this.
Yes, I know that we can make a budget before, but that simply isn’t the same thing. Let’s say my budget is $65 including shipping and the price turns out to be $67 including shipping, shall I simply skip it? I really want the game, maybe I should just stretch my budget a bit more to get it, and now I have a tight timefrime to make this decision. Can I cut something else in my personal budget to make room for this, and even if I can, should I?
Okay, this is already a long post, and I don’t want to make a bigger deal than it is. It’s not the end of the world, but it created a stress moment for me that I was not satisfied with. Here are some suggestions to avoid such a situation in the future:
+ Announce the price 1 day before the preorder happens to ensure that people can make an informed decision in their own pace without feeling stressed out.
+ Help customers by informing the times in different time zones. The mentioned timezones are relatively unknown to most people in Sweden, and in Europe we use different standards. People are genuinely bad at converting time zones correctly, and this creates uncertainty if it was done correctly. Please give some times in different parts of the world, like one in US, one in EU (London or Paris i e), etc.
+ Since you can only preorder two copies, please provide the shipping details beforehand. The shipping table was only for one copy, but the second copy could range from anything from $0 to the same amount as the first one. This helps us limit the price range further.
– Not sure if this is a good idea, but another possibility is to gate all preorders during the first day and say that it doesn’t matter when you put in your order for the first day. In the unlikely even that everything sells out, it would be randomly determined who get their copy.
Rickard: This is great feedback! Thank you for taking the time to share it. I’m sorry for any stressed this preorder event caused you. I’ll take your input into consideration for the next preorder!
Thanks for reading my shared thoughts, Jamey :) Makes me very happy that I took the time to share it with you. Looking forward to play this amazing game irl :)
Hi Jamey,
I’ve just preordered the collector’s edition of Red Rising. I did not suscribe in Champions group. I red that those who belong to this group would receive the game first. Can u tell me when i could receive it please?
Thx in advance for your answer and hope i will enjoy this new game as Scythe.
Olivier: Thanks for preordering! When all Champion orders in your region have been shipped, the non-Champion orders will be shipped. I don’t know exactly when that applies to your copy, but it will likely be in mid-April.
Love your games and so looking forward to receiving the latest. Bought one for friends who are always envious of our game selections. Price is amazing Jamey. We live in NZ and by the time the retailers have them the price is exceedingly more than your wonderful offering. Cheers and keep the great creativity coming.
Hope all is well Covid wise with you and yours.
Antony
Thank you so much, Antony! All retailers worldwide should have the retail version in around 2 months.
I wasn’t planning on getting the game. I played it once on Tabletopia and was underwhelmed by a couple aspects (and the awkwardness of Tabletopia). I thought the game was OK and interesting (certainly willing to play it again) and would benefit from in person play. However, the price was substantially less than I expected and I felt it was great value, so I did, indeed, purchase it. I also wanted the speckled eggs… and your automatic suggestion of more plastic trays made yet another sale. So… I expected to get nothing and instead got quite a bit :)
I have most SM games and expansions (I passed on Pendulum) and have loved them all. Hopefully in person gaming will resume and I can give Red Rising a fair shake with other people! Thank you for all you do.
Enjoy your gaming commentary.
Market segmentation based on price sensitivity is “price discrimination”. Essentially akin to the term price flexibility. Though, price discrimination does not sound good to the lay audience.
Price discrimination: the difference in price for products sold by the same company can not be explained by the difference in cost of providing the products. It allows for the maximization of profit by selling at different prices to different market segments. Why offer the same price when some groups are willing to pay more? The trick is also trying to capture the customers who do want to pay the higher price.
My understanding of price discrimination is as Investopedia describes it: “Price discrimination is a selling strategy that charges customers different prices for the same product or service based on what the seller thinks they can get the customer to agree to. In pure price discrimination, the seller charges each customer the maximum price he or she will pay.”
That’s not at all the same as using information about what other publishers are charging for different products to determine a reasonable and fair price for our products.
Not knowing the price lets me research the product based on it merits. Then I can decide if it is worth the price when it is posted. There are some games that I see the price and see the contents in the box and don’t even take the time to evaluate it. At least this way, I can decide if like the game without being biased by the price.
I concur. I do the same thing. I also like the fact that he considers the people that are “on the fence” about buying this. I was on the fence but the ideal price is what sent me over it. Good on him!
Thank you! I appreciate that, and I hope I was able to provide enough information in advance for you to decide if the game is a good fit for you.
Hi Jamey,
First time commenting even though I have been following your blog for a while, and I would like to say that I very much appreciate your transparency in everything you do.
Your logic for not releasing the price ahead of time makes complete sense to me. I knew what the release date was and I had pretty good idea of what the price would be, as I believe anyone would after a doing a little research, even if they are not a ‘hard-core’ gamer.
I think that FOMO plays a big part in peoples decision (I battle with it myself :) ) but the truth is the game will still be available in a few months time (going by your statement that you will produce more!) so anyone can budget for the next print! So I see no reason for frustration for not having the price available months ahead…
Thanks for the work you do and for sharing your thoughts !!
Tina
Thanks Tina! Fear of missing out is definitely an emotion I avoid as a marketing strategy–I don’t want anyone to rush into a decision or set an alarm at 3:00 am to place their preorder. So perhaps I should provide at least a maximum price in advance so people have that final piece of the puzzle before preorder day.
Hi Jamey,
In a more positive tone than yesterday’s message and as a buyer (along the same lines of though of Mark) I would say that when it comes to a pre-sale campaign, the time when the price is revealed is irrelevant for most of us.
People participating in a pre-sale is most likely people in the hobby, which means that we are aware of the average price of a game and we have a budget for supporting our hobby. If it is not a person in the hobby, it is not hard to have a look at your page a get a rough (but quite accurate) of the band within which the game’s price will be moving.
If the price is too steep for your budget, doesn’t matter when it is revealed, you will not buy. If the price is accessible (and/or your budget is generous), then your decision will be made on other grounds: design, vibe, theme, rules, etc. All of which can be known without information about the price.
I understand all your points and they all make sense from the perspective of a hobbyist.
I hope this makes sense….
D
I thought the Champions price + EU shipping was fair. I bought a copy of Red Rising, plus Moor Visitors for Viticulture.
I understand how difficult it can be to price a game. I’m struggling with mine. To keep it discounted as much as possible so it costs less with shipping than at retail with free shipping, but to leave room in case shipping goes up (hopefully not making a lose), and to have a bit left over to make a second print run. Hopefully that is possible with 2021 shipping prices.
Will Moor Visitors ship from the UK fulfilment centre (duties paid)?
Hopefully they have a copy :)
Thanks Gerald! Indeed, we keep everything in stock in the UK, so your order will ship from the UK (delivery duties prepaid).
I had a booth at Essen in 2019, and I thought a lot about how to display the price of my game. In the end I decided not to display it at all!
Many booths (at Essen anyway, I haven’t been to other cons) will have a price list as the first thing you see. Putting myself in the shoes of a consumer, my first thought is – do I want to spend that much money? And I don’t know anything about the game yet! I might make a guess based on artwork hanging around the booth, but by and large if you put the price in front of me, I will first consider whether I want to part with that money. And usually the answer is no.
So for my booth I didn’t put any price anywhere. Instead I waited for people to ask. And usually by the time they had learned about the game and maybe demoed it, they were already ready to pay pretty much any reasonable price. Rarely did someone walk up and say, “how much?” Before asking, “what’s the game?” Because that’s not how we think! We don’t buy things because it costs $X. We consider price in our decision, but it’s never a reason by itself to buy anything. In my experience anyway.
So yeah I think it’s a smart move to release price later, after people have learned about the game and decided in their heads what they think it’s worth before being turned off by a price when they don’t even know anything about the product or how they feel about it.
Malachi: Thanks for sharing your perspective as a creator. That’s really interesting about how you wanted to entice customers to learn a little about the game before price became a factor. I can definitely relate to that.
(Including the comment I posted on Facebook)
I don’t often preorder for the same reason I didn’t used to back many Kickstarters. I hate tying up my money for an extended period without knowing when I’m going to get the product. The way Stonemaier does perorders is different because you have already produced the game and you know when it’s going to release. That changes the calculus for me. The price would only have been important if it was much higher than I was willing to pay and in that case it wouldn’t really make much difference for me because I could make that judgement at the last minute. I can understand that some people have a more specific budget than I do or have to plan it out ahead of time, so theior calculus is different. I also understand that some people are just curious, but releasing the price far ahead of people making the go/no-go decision also opens you up to begative speculation for people who don’t need the information for budgetary reasons.
Some…I’ll be kind and call them “pundits” 🙂…have been known top speculate that a game at a lower price point was poorly made, without having seen it, or that a higher price-point means it is over produced or that the publisher is making a “cash grab”. Then people may factor those comments into their decision making even though the commentary was based on opinion, guessing, and incomplete information.
To be fully transparent, I did preorder Red Rising from Stonemaier because I wanted the collector’s edition, I felt like the preorder price was fair, and I did not register as a champion because I didn’t feel like it fit my needs. I appreciate the flexible options.
(Also, I do now back more Kickstarters because it’s simply the only way to get certain games. I’m glad Stonemaier doesn’t crowdfund anymore though 🙂 )
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Marc, and thanks for preordering. You make a great point that pricing too low can raise questions about the publisher’s confidence in the game, just as pricing too high can dissuade consumers too. And I like your point about how receiving the game so soon after a Stonemaier preorder can impact the price perception too.
Honestly, the price (before my Champion discount) was $10 less than I was guessing. That was a pleasant surprise though my preorder wasn’t ever in doubt.