Seven years ago, I launched what would be my final Kickstarter project as a creator. The Scythe campaign ran for around 4 weeks, delivered 7 months later…and that was it. Stonemaier Games was done with crowdfunding.
At the time (in 2016), our primary reasons were as follows (in order):
- Fulfillment risk
- Time commitment
- Human nature concerns
- Distributor/retailer relationships
- Emotional toll
- Stretch goals
- Hype
- Overreliance on crowdfunding
I recently looked back at this list during an interview and then later a chat with a publisher, and I wondered: Are the reasons we quit Kickstarter in 2016 the same reasons we still haven’t returned (and don’t plan to return)?
Before I revise the original list, I want to be abundantly clear that (a) I’m forever grateful for the Kickstarter platform, as Stonemaier Games wouldn’t exist without it and (b) this is only my experience and I’m not encouraging any other creator to stop using crowdfunding, especially if you’ve found it the best way to serve your customers.
Since 2016, we have replaced crowdfunding by (a) gauging demand from distributors before we start production of a new product and (b) after production is complete and freight shipping is in progress, within the span of 6 weeks we announce the product, reveal it, accept preorders for it, and ship it from our regional fulfillment centers.
The Wingspan Asia and Nesting Box preorder, for example, will launch on our webstore in early November, with shipping happening within the same month from fulfillment centers in the US, Canada, Australia, and Europe.
Here’s an updated (2022) list of reasons why we continue to not return to crowdfunding (in order):
- Gap in time, uncertainty, and anticipation: I love that we can serve customers through a 6-week reveal/preorder/shipping process. There’s still anticipation and excitement during this time, but it’s greatly truncated as compared to crowdfunding and avoids the “hype” issue. It’s also really helpful for us to remove all the layers of uncertainty that stand between an unproduced game and fulfillment centers–by the time the preorder launches, the only remaining uncertainty is exactly how long our fulfillment centers will take to ship the products.
- Focus on webstore: Over the last 4+ years, we’ve built 4 region-specific webstores and a loyalty program to solidify those webstores as THE place to go if a customer wants to preorder or order directly from us; switching even temporarily to another platform would cause dilution. (For this same reason, I understand why creators who have committed to crowdfunding are sticking with crowdfunding–you’ve taught your fans that’s the place to buy games from you.)
- Moderation, toxicity, and emotional toll: We continue to put our games through hundreds of blind playtests, and we’re always present on social media to answer questions, provide information, and consume constructive criticism. We control some of those platforms (Facebook groups and Discord), and I really appreciate our ability to moderate the conversations there to foster a welcoming community. I do not at all miss the toxicity of Kickstarter, and while there’s always stress involved in serving a vast variety of customers with different desires, needs, and perspectives, the emotional toll is significantly less than on Kickstarter.
- Relationships with distributors and retailers: While there does seem to a be a strong correlation between us quitting crowdfunding and the strength of our distributor/retailer relationships, it also seems that retailers don’t mind publishers using crowdfunding as much as they used to.
- Time commitment: Planning and running a Kickstarter campaign takes a lot of time….but so does launching any new product to any amount of buzz. My to-do checklist is longer than ever, and the design diaries and ensuing discussion are very similar to project updates on a crowdfunding page. I think the biggest difference now is that the most intense portion of our preorder system is now just a few weeks, whereas for a crowdfunding campaign it’s the entire length of the campaign, then little spurts here and there until fulfillment begins, then it’s really intense again during fulfillment. It’s much more concise now, which I prefer.
Some notes about reasons that no longer apply in the same way as in 2016:
- Fulfillment risk: When we originally quit Kickstarter, a big part of the reason wasn’t crowdfunding at all–it was fulfillment. We had some previously solid fulfillment centers experience a huge drop in quality during the Scythe fulfillment, which prompted me to originally sell Charterstone only into distribution. However, I learned afterwards that there were still quite a few customers who wanted to buy directly from us, so we returned to a worldwide direct fulfillment system. It isn’t always great, but I think it’s necessary. The good news is we almost never need to deal with out-of-date addresses (because the addresses are entered on our webstore just a few days or weeks before the shipment itself).
- Stretch goals and variants: I used to consider stretch goals as a core part of why a product would be crowdfunded, but I just wanted to make a single great version of the product. However, since 2016 I’ve seen many creators successfully not use stretch goals at all, and I also think crowdfunding is a good time to offer special variants of the product (deluxe versions, special add-ons, etc).
I think that’s it! Again, these reasons are very specific to Stonemaier Games, though I’m sharing them to offer a perspective on how we’re trying to best serve our customers (and it just happens to not involve crowdfunding for use). There are many ways to build community, gauge demand, market products, fund print runs, improve components, and allocate for worldwide shipping.
I’m curious what you think about these reasons as they relate to how you use/view crowdfunding (and/or how you buy or interact with Stonemaier brands).
Also read:
- If I Returned to Kickstarter, Here’s How I’d Do It
- Lessons Learned from Quitting Kickstarter as a Creator, Part 1
- Lessons Learned from Quitting Kickstarter as a Creator, Part 2
- Lessons Learned from Quitting Kickstarter as a Creator, Part 3
- Lessons Learned from Quitting Kickstarter as a Creator, Part 4
- Lessons Learned from Quitting Kickstarter as a Creator, Part 5
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22 Comments on “Are the Reasons We Quit Kickstarter Still Valid 6 Years Later?”
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[…] about the impact of selling the promise of something many months before delivering on that promise. No matter the reason, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Stonemaier Games has been far more successful at […]
A potential “solution” for #2 would be to host a crowdfunding campaign from the Stonemaier webstore instead of KS/Gamefound.
It would of course take a ton of time and resources, so “solution” remains in quotes xD
-Caleb/Cheesedud6
We could, and we have experimented with that, but why not just make a product we believe in and offer it to people now instead of making them wait 1-2 years? :)
Agree 100%. You’ve made lifelong fans of me and my wife and you do not need to crowdfund for us to buy your games.
-Caleb/Cheesedud6
I think the bigger factor here is that you have such a large and rabid fan base that you no longer NEED crowdfunding. You have the production capital, distributor relationships and passionate fan base you need to succeed without it. You could announce “Wingspan: Birds from Mars” and it would sell out.
Holy Moly! I WOULD buy this! Hehe
I think the key enabler for your current strategy is that you now have the means and confidence to pay all the production costs up front, before a single order is placed. The runaway success of your early kickstarters were well deserved, and instrumental in getting to where you are now.
As a backer, I see three major elements that justify using Kickstarter (or other crowdfunding).
– Startup/funding. One of the original core ideas behind Kickstarter is to enable projects to be created that otherwise wouldn’t exist. There are a few projects I’ve backed simply because I want to see them come into the world.
– Player contribution. By locating and engaging with invested fans during development, you can get input into the game’s design at a stage where it’s still easy to incorporate it. As a backer, I find it more engaging when a project does reach out to backers for ideas or feedback (or even just proofreading/editing).
– Special/deluxe editions/components. While I’m not a fan of Kickstarter exclusives, if you do have economy and luxury versions of the product, Kickstarter offers a distribution channel for the luxury version without having two SKUs competing in retail distribution.
“2. Focus on webstore”
Well, that means selling B2C. And currently you sell both B2C and B2B.
And maintaining a good webstore requires a certain amount of time & money, it isn’t fully used when you do B2B as well. I noticed a certain friction by having a business model that relies both on B2B and B2C. Because you need to set up the B2C part in a way that doesn’t scare away your B2B partners, and at the same time you still want the B2C part to be profitable enough to make it worthwhile. An example is that during a KS, you basically compete with your own product in retail stores in the future because a certain amount of potential backers will carefully consider whether to back now or wait for retail.
An alternative that is sometimes used is to do B2C only for a while and then return to B2B (eg. the first 6 months after release the game is not in retail).
Did you consider doing B2C only? Since you have a good cashflow going (assuming) and an awesome reputation, I bet most of your fans would buy your games from your web stores if they were not available in retail. That way you’d have no friction and full control.
“Moderation, toxicity, and emotional toll:”
– Well, don’t you think that having employees handle customer service would mitigate that to a large degree? They have more distance and are Did you consider doing B2C only? Since you have a good cashflow going (assuming) and an awesome reputation, I bet most of your fans would buy your games from your web stores if they were not available in retail. That way you’d have no friction and full control.
“Moderation, toxicity, and emotional toll:”
– Well, don’t you think that having employees handle customer service would mitigate that to a large degree? They have more distance and are and are not as emotionally affected by rude customers.
“Fulfillment risk:”
– As long as you also sell B2C, you have the same fulfillment risk as if you did a KS, right? Or do you feel the fulfillment risk is mitigated by having the fulfillment being spread over a longer timeframe rather than a spike for a KS fulfillment?
“Stretch goals and variants:”
– Yes, I agree they are not really needed, especially not if one does B2C only.
Thanks for your questions!
1. “Did you consider doing B2C only?” We want to give gamers the opportunity to buy our games in the way that’s best for them. Our data shows that for around 10% of gamers, that’s directly from our webstore. The other 90% prefer other options (e.g., local and online game stores).
2. “Well, don’t you think that having employees handle customer service would mitigate that to a large degree?” Joe does handle a lot of customer service now, but crowdfunding platforms are not set up to properly handle toxicity (compared the variety of other social media platforms we use).
3. “do you feel the fulfillment risk is mitigated by having the fulfillment being spread over a longer timeframe rather than a spike for a KS fulfillment?” There is still fulfillment risk, and our fulfillment centers ship preorders at the same rate that they would ship crowdfunded rewards. One nice element of our system, though, is that we almost never need to deal with out-of-date addresses (because the addresses are entered on our webstore just a few days or weeks before the shipment itself).
No questions or suggestions, just wanted to offer a heartfelt thanks for all you do on the education front, sharing your experiences and knowledge and thought process with the rest of the industry. While there are other designers who really open up to the greater community like Dominic Crapuchettes, I think no one is sharing good business and design thought process as effectively as you and I really appreciate the time you take to share that knowledge.
Thanks, Mark! I enjoy sharing positive design notes about the games I play from other designers and publishers, as well as the entrepreneurships notes I’ve learned or am currently processing. :)
Hi Jamey! Very interesting to read. I’m launching my third kickstarter this december and I really wish someday I could get rid of pre-sales and do like you do! Someday :) Keep up the good work Jamey, you are inspiring :)
Thanks for sharing, Jeff! I’m grateful for the position I’m in to use our current method. What metrics are you looking for to try something other than crowdfunding?
Would using crowdfunding for Wingspan have made it easier to predict its success, since it appeared that the strong sales came as a surprise?
It’s possible that it may have helped us gauge demand slightly better. It also may have fallen flat out of the gate, as the game’s early success may have been related to people being able to receive it within a few weeks of learning about it and preordering it. But with crowdfunding, you’re only gaining information on early adopters–everyone else who follows is a huge variable.
“There are many ways to build community, gauge demand, market products, fund print runs, improve components, and allocate for worldwide shipping.”
Hi Jamey, I’m wondering about the many ways to fund print runs. While a platform like Kickstarter offers many possibilities, and while well-etablished publishers with enough cash on their hands still use it for many reasons, the main goal of a crowdfunding platform has always been the “funding” aspect to me.
I’m curious if you see any other ways for a starting publisher to raise funds if not via a crowdfunding platform. The classic way used to be to go to the bank and convince them you have a solid business plan, and crowdfunding shifted that to “convincing your customers”.
If you would start over again, knowing what you know today, and knowing the reasons why you don’t do crowdfunding anymore, would you then still use Kickstarter until you have enough funds to pre-fund new print runs? Or do you see other ways to get those funds, that you would then turn to?
Karel: The funding is probably the most difficult part. You can either have other sources of funding (like a general pool of revenue from various sources) or take a bridge loan if cash is low, but for new creators without either of those (or experienced creators who don’t want to take a bridge loan, which I understand), there isn’t really a good alternative as compared to generating those funds from backers.
If I were starting out or in the initial growth stages, I would absolutely run a crowdfunding campaign instead of our current method.
Very interesting read, especially seeing how things have changed. I’m curious how you viewed and view Kickstarter as a marketing tool, and to what extent having a bigger crowd of loyal stonemaier fans changed your perspective and reliance on the platform. Although that’s likely too long to address in a comments section…
As for our audience, at the time we left Kickstarter, I think we had around 15,000 people following us, and Kickstarter was certainly a big part of that. It gave me some confidence in the decision.
As for Kickstarter/Gamefound as a marketing tool, I think the overall attention on it from the industry is a big part of organic marketing at this point, as is the “friend who backed” alerts on Kickstarter.
I actually think you could move your pre-order system to Kickstarter and have incredible success. It’s hard to beat the hype build & network effects of crowdfunding.
Essentially, you could go to Kickstarter with your already-made product, have the tooling finished and everything ready to go when you click “go live.”
It might add a few months on the back-end but I think you would more than make up for it in increased sales and awareness.
As far as emotional toll and time commitment, yes – these are two of the big ones that would stay unless you hired someone to run and manage the campaigns.
Honestly, I miss have Stonemaier a part of the crowdfunding conversation!
“I actually think you could move your pre-order system to Kickstarter and have incredible success. It’s hard to beat the hype build & network effects of crowdfunding.”
I don’t doubt it. The point I’m making, though, is that we would dilute and lose the success of our webstore in doing so. Better to stay focused than dilute between multiple platforms, particularly a platform we can’t control.
Also, it isn’t just about numbers–it’s about how we can best serve our customers. Reducing the gap from 6-12 months to 6 weeks is a big part of that.