I haven’t really stopped to breathe for the last 30 hours (aside from a fitful night’s sleep) since announcing Wyrmspan yesterday. But I wanted to take a moment to reflect on the announcement and what I’ve learned from it.
First, a few key facts:
- Wyrmspan is a new, standalone game designed by Connie Vogelmann (Apiary). It will be familiar to those who know Wingspan, but it is not a dragon-themed reskin of Wingspan. Connie built Wyrmspan from the ground up: New to this more complex game are all 183 dragon cards (including personality traits and 35 hatchlings), 75 cave cards, 4 different dragon guilds, and more. See the full list of differences here. We created this game with the goal of bringing joy to people (fans of Wingspan and beyond), plain and simple.
- Elizabeth Hargrave (Wingspan) was a great supporter of Wyrmspan from the start, offering her advice, wisdom, and playtesting time to Connie at key times throughout the process. Wingspan and Wyrmspan are independent of each other, and the design of Wingspan’s next expansion was not hindered or impacted by Wyrmspan. Wyrmspan does not invalidate or replace Wingspan.
- Wyrmspan is complete, and we’ll start selling and shipping it to customers on January 31. We sent it to the manufacturer over 6 months ago, and the English version is currently on ships heading to fulfillment centers in the US, Canada, Europe, and Australia. There’s only one version of the game, and customers can add rubber playmats and upgrade packs (metal coins and wooden resources) to their webstore orders. Wyrmspan will ship to customers throughout February, and its retail release is in late March.
If you’re curious about Wyrmspan, you can follow along the design diary posts, read the rulebook, and/or subscribe to updates.
When I say that Wyrmspan is our biggest announcement ever, I mean that objectively (subjectively, all of our game announcements are just as important to us):
- The Stonemaier Games website had nearly 200,000 views since the announcement yesterday morning.
- The first English printing of Wyrmspan is 100,000 units.
- The teaser trailer for Wyrmspan already has over 110,000 views.
- Over 11,000 people have already signed up for updates and a launch notification, second only to Wingspan Asia and Red Rising total subscribers after weeks of signups.
I’m providing this context because it’s directly related to the sheer volume of comments, questions, and requests we received yesterday. That segues into my first lesson learned (I’ll then continue with the others):
- All hands on deck. This announcement makes me even more grateful that I now get to work with a small team of people instead of by myself. While I was posting content and answering questions on the website, YouTube, Facebook, BoardGameGeek, and Instagram yesterday, Joe and Dave D were fielding questions by email, Susannah was corresponding with retailers and localization partners, Alex was there for distributors (many of who already knew about the game from forecasting discussions long ago), and Dave H was making sure the website worked as intended (it did, though Mailchimp briefly stopped accepting new subscribers because of the influx).
- Press release. The internet is full of misinformation, but my hope at least is that the information provided by tabletop game journalists is accurate. Rather than leave that to chance, yesterday morning I sent out a press release to all major tabletop game outlets so they could have the information directly from me (and so they could easily reply to that email if they had any questions).
- I didn’t waste (much) time or energy on nonsense. With any announcement comes a mix of excitement, curiosity, criticism…and nonsense. Comments about “just a reskin,” “cash grab”, and text I can’t even quote out of respect for all the hard work that the designer, artist, and graphic designer put into the project simply have no helpful response. People absolutely have the right to speak their truth, and I’ve found it freeing to not feel compelled to speak back to certain unproductive comments, especially for a game as visible as this. (Also, the memes are hilarious and creative–I genuinely love them!)
- Stay hydrated. There was a period of around 3 hours after lunch yesterday where I didn’t move from my computer at all. I was replying to one comment after another, and even though my body was telling me otherwise, I kept answering “just one more question.” It took me back to my days of running the first Viticulture Kickstarter campaign in 2012, and not in a good way–water, movement, and not constantly staring at a computer screen are important!
- Use a checklist. I have a Google Sheet checklist of 20 announcement day tasks (and the days before and after). Without it, I would definitely miss some important steps, and I try to keep it open throughout the day to add to it for the future (lest I forget things that seem intuitive at the moment). Yesterday I also used the parts of this list for the launch of the Tapestry revised civ pack.
Did the Wyrmspan announcement go well for you? If you had a question, did you feel like it was properly answered, either directly by me or via the various resources we provide on our website? Thanks for the opportunity to reflect on the last 30 hours!
If you gain value from the 100 articles Jamey publishes on this blog each year, please consider championing this content! You can also listen to posts like this in the audio version of the blog.
120 Comments on “Wyrmspan: Lessons Learned from Our Biggest Announcement Ever”
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Is a card table big enough to play the game on with 2 players?
A 3×3 foot card table? Absolutely! :)
I know it’s a little early to be asking but any shot of a wyrmspan expansion down the line?
Thanks for asking! We’re still a month away from the retail release, so we haven’t even started thinking about expansions yet. If we do, it’ll appear on the progress chart here: https://stonemaiergames.com/e-newsletter/
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Stay hydrated! All hands (paws? your pets helping out with pawkaging / plaw-testing?) on deck, and good luck! You and Kayenta Games (Dan) are rare publishers-designers who care about building long-term customer relations and quality work that is welcoming to new gamers. So, if your projects ever run into any bumps, don’t worry about it, dust those disappointments off, since failing is part of trying, and trying is part of learning — and learning moves us forward in life (^_^) cheers!
Thanks Terry! That’s high praise putting our name next to Kayenta–I’m flattered by that. I look forward to learning from the Wyrmspan launch tomorrow! :)
Everyone in my family is looking forward the coming of the game. Keep up the great work.
I have a question about the rubber playmats. If I were to get one for each player, would these still fit in the base box? Usually they store rolled up and are more bulky in that case. Thanks for the work you do!
Thanks Alex! You’re correct that the rubber playmats take up quite a bit of space. They will fit (either folded in half or rolled up), but there will be some box lift.
I appreciate the article. I especially enjoyed the aspects where you mention the emphasis to stay hydrated and to take care of yourself through this busy and crazy announcement season.
Don’t let it keep you down, Jamey. Many people (myself included) are excited about this release. I am not a fan of Wingspan at all. It’s one of my least favorite SM games. That being said, this announcement excites me. The gameplay, theme, and (after really enjoying Apiary) the Designer excite me a lot.
All that aside, everyone in the community knows that many users of certain sites tend to go off the rails when it comes to reviews and criticisms. People will rate games 10 because others rated it a 1 or vice versa. They’ll say they hate or love a game before even seeing a rulebook or pictures.
The true feelings that matter are the players. Once the game is out and players have had a chance to truly try the game, then all of these pre-launch opinions will wash away in the sea of internet obscurity. Most of them probably were never going to play this game anyway.
Everyone at SM does a fantastic job every time. While I certainly don’t love every game you all put out, it’s clear that passion, time, and care are put into every release. For me, that means a lot and it’s what keeps SM at the top of the list for people when it comes to publishers. Let’s not forget you guys won Best Publisher of All Time on Dice Tower’s bracket episode recently.
I think with that level of popularity will always come the general “haters” but that’s all it is. People who hate something because everyone else likes it. It doesn’t reflect anyone at SM at all. I know this isn’t your first release with backlash before the game is even on shelves and it probably won’t be your last. But it is clear that everything is made with passion and love for the hobby. At the end of the day, that’s what matters most. To me and many many others.
Thanks for your thoughts on this topic, Marc, and I agree that the opinions that matter most to me are of those who actually play the game. If Wyrmspan brings joy to people, I’ll be happy.
“But it is clear that everything is made with passion and love for the hobby.” I really appreciate you saying and seeing this!
Absolutely. It’s also clear how much you personally care. That’s a really special thing in any industry to see the owner and face of a company be so involved in discussions with customers/fans and community outreach. There aren’t that many publisher I can say that about. Very few.
Also, It’s worth pointing out the obvious. SM is a business and it’s important that games have sales as they’re not free to make. On this front, as you’ve seen with pre-release interest, this isn’t going to be a problem with Wyrmspan. It might not reach the insane sales numbers of Wingspan but it’s going to do really really well.
Really this is all to say that it’s a loud few online but general talk about the game seems to be really positive from what I’ve seen. I appreciate everything you all at SM do for the hobby. Thank you for the years of fun and I can’t wait for many more.
The choice of name for this new game and the box design ensure that folks will associate it very, very closely with Wingspan. While this is a smart branding decision because Wingspan is so successful (and truly a wonderful game), I wonder if it’s a bit odd to use this marketing strategy and then be disappointed in folks’ natural assumptions when they saw it. In other words, the “nonsense” you speak of above above.
I’ve definitely seen some folks make some bad faith comments online (honestly, the things people lose their temper over on the internet confound me), but — generally speaking — based on the name and design, the natural assumption of a re-skin or expansion must have been expected to a certain degree?
“the natural assumption of a re-skin or expansion must have been expected to a certain degree?”
With different designer named on the box, it didn’t occur to me that anyone would think Wyrmspan is a reskin of Wingspan.
Also, just to clarify, I don’t mind someone making a mistake–that isn’t nonsense. But if someone instantly and publicly dismisses the game as “just a reskin” or a “cash grab”, I think that’s nonsense (and highly disrespectful of the amount of work Connie put into creating this game).
Hi. I am from the Asia region. Is there any possible way for us here to get our hands on the launch version for Asia?
Absolutely! We sell and ship to customers in Asia from our Australia/NZ/Asia webstore, starting on January 31 for Wyrmspan. Make sure to sign up for a launch notification! http://eepurl.com/iEYmAw
I absolutely cannot wait for this! I don’t think I have ever been this excited for a game! Is there a launch *time* yet? Need to set my calendar alarms!!
Thanks! Typically our products launch around 10:00 am Central (St. Louis) time. :) Also, we launch a few hours early in Australia so people in Australia, New Zealand, and Asia don’t feel the need to wake up in the middle of the night.
You mentioned that ships are heading to fulfillment centers in the US, Canada, Europe, and Australia. As an Australian, does this mean if I order on Jan 31 that my order will come from the Australian fulfillment centre or is this just for the retailers?
Thanks Ben! If you’re in Australia and you order from us on January 31, we’ll ship to you from our fulfillment center in Australia during the month of February.
I’m so glad you love the memes! I think they’re hilarious as well 😆
Looking foward to buy and play this game! Wingspan is one of my favorite board games of all time and this just hits right in the spot as someone who loves dragons since forever. This also excites me as a miniature painter, as all the dragon cards will inspire me on color schemes for the dragon miniatures!.
Thanks Fred! I look forward to seeing if any of the Wyrmspan dragons inspire you. :)
I think there’s an interesting discussion to be had about sequels and spinoffs when this all cools down, I am excited for this game but the timing feels rather unlucky coming right after the rather controversial releases of Everdell Farshore and Dune Uprising being too similar to their original edition. But then Expeditions went in a new direction and people complained that they wanted it to be more like Scythe, so I guess that goes to show that people are never happy. And I was a little less surprised by the announcement because I thought this was exactly what people have been asking for over the last few years (dinosaurs, dragons, Pokémon were all things I heard tossed around).
I am excited for Wyrmspan, I have played Wingspan so many times as a huge bird lover and a big fan of the game so I have no desire to replace it but I think this will sit nicely alongside it. However I will be trying to keep my excitement to myself or within the shelter of the SM Games communities. The gaming community does not feel like a safe place for someone as sensitive as myself, and I am not looking forward to hearing strong opinions in local game groups or online since they always make me feel weird or stupid. But I will look forward to playing this with my wife in the safety of my own home.
I am intrigued about these memes though…
I agree that it’s a tough line to walk–Connie talks about that a bit in the design diaries. And you’re right that it probably didn’t come as that big of a surprise to Wingspanners, many of whom have asked for quite a while for us to make versions of the game featuring other creatures. :)
As a long time DnD player I wished Jeff Easley did the dragon art. Still, im looking forward to seeing all the 183 unique dragons.
My perception could be wrong, but in D&D, are dragons the equivalent of birds (in that they are everyday creatures you might see outside your window), or are they typically monsters you must slay (which is not all the case in Wyrmspan)?
In D&D, dragons are not necessarily monsters that must be slain(as they’re human-like with their own dreams, shortcomings, and morality), but they are still very rare and powerful mythical monsters, and Jeff’s art in D&D reflects that by making them feel powerful and special (though he probaly could still draw a good looking dragon that fits the Wyrmspan style). It’s often a big deal seeing a dragon in D&D. The feel is definitely different than what you guys have going here with the idea of them being as commonplace as birds. Which, by the way, kudos to you guys for thinking of that because I adore that concept. The art so far also looks fantastic.
Thanks Avery! I appreciate the insight about dragon rarity in D&D, compared to how common they are in the world of Wyrmspan. :)
Jamey,
Kudos on the Wyrmspan announcement! It’s impressive to see the excitement and buzz it’s generating. I can only imagine how disheartening it must be to face backlash when you put in so much effort to launch something that you and the team believe in. I hope you know that I personally admire the work you do and how you rise above that noise.
Your insights into the process are always helpful. Keep up the excellent work! Also, if you’re open to it, I’d love to get a peek at your announcement day checklist.
Best,
Brett
Thanks Brett! I think I’m the most sensitive to all the work that others put into our games (especially the designer, artist, and graphic designer, but also well beyond them).
As for the checklist, I’ve considered posting it, but a lot of it is very specific to the way we announce products. All within the same hour, we’re sending the newsletter, making webpages go live, creating the Facebook group, posting on Instagram, and then updating a lot of different website links and hierarchies.
I’m excited about Wyrmspan – everything I’ve seen points to another well executed game. Wingspan is a classic, and Apiary has become an instant favorite- I see no downside to putting the minds behind these games together!
And once again the professionalism and business savvy of Stonemaier shines. Keep up the fantastic work- and keep filtering those who bring nothing positive to the conversation!
Thanks, PA–I appreciate your enthusiasm! :)
I know this isn’t actually related to Wingspan, but would it be possible to fit this game in the Wingspan nesting box?
It depends on how you organize it, but the Wingspan Nesting Box is designed for all Wingspan content, not Wyrmspan (a different game).
I love that you and the team put so much energy into being PROFESSIONAL. This is the type of hard work that goes into Videogames, movies ect. So many board game companies announce a product low key, and then you know nothing. They ignore messages on BGG for months about release dates, they’re vague about pretty much everything and they actually have no idea what stage the games are even at. (Even big companies get basic information about their games wrong).
I really wish the board game industry took more notice of your approach to communication and interactions with fans.
Shout out to Garphill Games and Unexpected Games who also do a good job.
Anyway, I’ll be getting Wyrmspan day one and my fiance is excited too and he is usually averse to me buying more games!
Thanks Miles! I can’t say I always keep it professional, but I try to at least be responsive, communicative, and available for those who are willing to ask questions. :)
Jamey, I wish you and the entire team, especially Connie the very best with Wyrmspan ~ specially as we’re entering the Year of the Dragon with my Asian-American friends.
Thanks Joe! It’s serendipitous timing.
Or maybe, for loyal fans of SM and Wingspan, you would publish a longer story about how Wyrmspan was created and where the idea came from. You know, an origin story.
I like you very much, especially the way you contact your fans, it’s really great and I’m far from hating or criticizing, but I think we deserve some deeper explanations. You know, a longer article in the same style as your other hundreds of really interesting articles.
I have mixed feelings myself right now, but firstly, I won’t judge until I play (and there’s still a long way to go), secondly, I have all of Azul’s on the shelf, so… :)
PS. I expected “Wingspan: Birds of Terraformed Mars” to be a spinoff, not some dragons ;)
PS2. Every time I write a similar comment, I try to remember that there is a living person sitting on the other side. I hope I’m not being too aggressive.
An origin story? Like the detailed January 4 design diary linked in the above post (and also posted in the Wyrmspan Facebook group and on BoardGameGeek), titled “Wyrmspan’s Origin Story”?
https://stonemaiergames.com/games/wyrmspan/design-diary/
Hey Jamey,
First off, CONGRATS on the announcement – what a great way to start the year! I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank you, and your team. As a teacher, I often get caught up in the chaos that is the profession, and with a million tasks pulling me in a million directions, I often lose sight of the fact that limited time I get to spend with my students can literally change their day/week/month…you get the idea. I often have to tell myself to slow down and appreciate that. My family and I are huge fans of the board game industry, and I can truly say that not a week goes by without us playing one of the games that you produced. You guys simply do it on another level, both with game design and production value. I just hope that in this flurry of announcement week, you realize that what you do simply brings joy to a lot of people. You, and everyone on your team should be proud! Happy New Year, and bring on the dragons!
Thanks Matt! That’s a great parallel between this and teaching–thank you for sharing. :)
Hey Jamey, being a huge fan of SM (my favorite publisher), I hope you’ll be reading my comment.
First off, congratulations on the amazing launches you’ve done over the years. I am sure Wyrmspan will be no different.
With that being said though, I want to address some things.
Wrymspan by itself is an amazing game. I have already read the rulebook and I understand its flow and gameplay. The art and components are also top notch!
But, if there is one thing I can say about the criticism that was put forward, it would be to learn from it and understand the why, so you can improve in your upcoming games. So please take my comment into consideration.
Most of the criticism stems from the fact that, at its core, Wyrmspan is essentially very similar to Wingspan. The 3 habitats (the player boards), the cache/tuck actions, the row activation, the egg mechanics (lay & spend), end of round scoring, etc etc. It feels like the very core from Wingspan was taken, and then altered and built upon into Wyrmspan, alongside a few new ‘core’ things (like the Dragon’s Guild, which is a nice but tiny addition).
I am not saying that this is a necessarily a bad thing, and Wyrmspan itself has some unique mechanisms (I suppose most of the variation mechanics will come from the cards, which I’ve seen only a few of).
However, I wouldn’t like the board game community to steer into this direction a lot, where designers and publishers are afraid to innovate more drastically and would rather ‘play it safe’ knowing that the title would still make them money without the risk of a completely new game being a “hit or miss”.
Take the Dune Imperium and Imperium Uprising for instance — they are an exact example of this approach (in their case, Uprising completely replaces the original Dune game, while it should have only been an expansion and not a standalone game).
With that being said though, in my opinion, if Wyrmspan is priced appropriately having all this in mind (not less than 50$ and definitely not more than 60$), I am pretty confident that it will hit my shelves in the upcoming months.
Thanks for reading!
Definitely, here’s how I talk about the similarities and differences in full detail:
Like its predecessor, Wyrmspan is a game about collecting unique winged animals on a player mat and gaining points from eggs, cached resources, tucked cards, and goal tiles. While Wingspan served as the inspiration, Wyrmspan is a more complex game featuring the following differences:
–You must excavate a cave space before enticing (playing) a dragon to that space by playing a cave card (which has a “when played” benefit); you begin the game with 3 excavated spaces
–Hatchlings (baby dragons) are a type of card found in the dragon deck. They all have an egg cost (you’re hatching them from an egg), an ongoing power whenever you feed them, and a strong one-time ability when they’re fully grown
–Four different guilds (1 per game) offering different in-game and end-game benefits as you progress
–Dragon cards have personality tags referenced by various powers and end-round goals. Every dragon card is designed from scratch; they are not designed as copies of Wingspan cards.
–Actions are performed by spending coins and often eggs (not action cubes), both of which you can save for future rounds. There are even some ways to gain extra coins while you play (in Wingspan, you can never gain extra actions).
Explore your caves from left to right to activate abilities (not right to left); reaching the end of a cave–when fully excavated and occupied–offers scoring benefits
–There are two nest icons on your cave mat even before you play a dragon (so you can lay eggs on your first turn if you wish)
–Start the game with your choice of 4 cards (from 3 dragons and 3 caves) and a choice of any 3 resources
–Discard down to 9 cards, 9 coins, and 9 resource tokens at the end of each of your turns (a restriction that gives players the creative freedom to actually carry over actions to the next round)
–Gain 6 coins and 1 egg at the beginning of each round (four total rounds)
–No dice (you’re either always gaining a specific resource or your choice of the 4 resources). The food dice are often a nice element of variability and player interaction in Wingspan, but we found it just a little too frustrating in Wyrmspan if all resources weren’t consistently available.
–No bonus cards (these types of bonuses are built into various dragon cards)
–No pink powers (“Once Between Turns”). I like how players can gain things when it’s not their turn in Wingspan, but we’ve noticed that it leads to a lot of questions and confusions among players. Instead, we included “if activated,” “when played,” “end of round,” and “end of game” powers in Wyrmspan.
–A 2-for-1 resource exchange can be used at any time (not just when playing a card)
–Card abilities are optional. If an ability gives an opponent a benefit, they may gain it even if you decline to do so.
–The end-round goal scoring is friendly. For example, if two people tie for first, they both gain full VP for first place. The next player takes second place.
–Dragon facts are found in a field-guide style book, not on the cards themselves. We found that by separating this text from the cards, we made the dragon cards more vision-friendly (plus, the 32-page full-color book is a fun addition).
Honestly I can see why a lot of people think that this is a reskin or cashgrab, the box art is more or less the same design. Effectively the mechanics seem very very similar to Wingspan, the boards seem the same, people will generally hate on anything these days and I don’t think some of it was hate. I mean other companies do this all the time I think it was just a shock coming from yourselves. As all your games are unique not all are my cup of tea but they all tend to be visually and all play differently.
I am on the fence if I will buy it I like Wingspan but since the big box of air I haven’t touched it, too much hassle to get it down off the shelf and feels redundant to get if the game is a reskin with a slight variation which is how it looks right now. Alternatively if I sell my Wingspan then this would probably replace it. I will wait for a proper playthrough to be released before pulling the trigger.
Will any expansions be in the works for this in the future?
Currently there are no expansions planned or in the works for Wyrmspan.
Hey Jamey.
I have to say that I was super excited and surprised at this announcement. Whilst being a champion I hadn’t got round to reading the email before the Youtube trailer went live. I loved the trailer, really nice explanation, content imagery and overview – just enough to balance getting people interested in a couple of minutes long video.
You have then followed this up with the live stream yesterday and the “three actions” video. I love this approach. It feels very transparent which and open and gives me a really good insight into the mechanics of the game and whether I would want to buy it (I think I do :) ). The one example of this is how you have talked about the low confrontation aspect of Wyrmspan (similar to the style of Wingspan) which is a big draw for me.
This open approach will lead to people coming in with negative comments but it seems to me that the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. Please hang on to that feedback. Lots and lots of people love Stonemaier Games so keep doing what you are doing :) Being very open and engaging with your customers is a brilliant approach – thank you.
Thanks Paul! I appreciate you checking out the videos, and I have a few more videos discussing Wingspan on the way soon (including one tomorrow). :)
It all makes sense, BUT front cover says “a Wingspan game”. What does it really mean? I think it really suggests it is a dragon-themed reskin of Wingspan, even if it’s not.
That’s certainly one interpretation! What it really means is that we’re communicating to customers that Wyrmspan is part of the Wingspan brand, familiar but different. If we wanted to convey “reskin”, we would have called it Wingspan: Dragons.
This was my interpretation. That people who have played Wingspan will have a leg up in terms of easing into the game as there are some of the same challenges in terms of evaluating cards and actions, but that it would be a different game entirely as pure re-skins are seldom worth it (although I do like century golem edition).
I’d suggest Star Wars: The Clone Wars as another example of this that works pretty well, IMO. It’s a “Pandemic System Game” (including showing that on the box), but it’s not a reskin of Pandemic.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/370913/star-wars-clone-wars
The Clone Wars has replaced base Pandemic on my table, and for some gamers I could see Wyrmspan replacing Wingspan eventually if they like the heavier version and the new mechanisms.
Saw the announcement on Youtube. Oldest was more triggered as dragons are more interesting then birds ;)
I think a lot of ‘reskin!’ comments could be avoided by using a slightly different name for the game aka avoiding “span”. However from a broader commercial point of view it is understandable.
My mind never went to reskin, it went to sequel.
I think the people saying it’s a reskin are lazy and not reading the very basics about this game which make it obvious why it’s not a reskin.
Waaahh?? You mean that people lazily replied without reading anything of the actual meat of the post?
Very interesting to read especially as Wyrmspan is really everywhere on social media right now. A lot of it goes in the direction of parody covers, but overall this seems to be a huge plus in terms of reach of the campaign. It’s probably not easy to see this mocking kind of coverage online especially as the designer, publisher or artist, but it also ended up being part of this really viral marketing. I don’t think I have seen any game coverage explode online like with Wyrmspan.
Oh, I actually think the memes with different “-span” words are quite clever! Definitely no problem with them. :)
If it was cited somewhere, I missed it. The name Wingspan had an obvious meaning in regard to the game content. What exactly does “Wyrmspan” mean?
Wyrm is an Old English word meaning serpent or dragon
A fair question. It’s very much a made-up word, with the “wyrm” representing dragons and the “span” referencing Wingspan.
Love your games and content. I can’t wait to get my hands on Wyrmspan. Just hope I can secure a copy. Wingspan was so popular I had to wait an extra year for it in Norway.😸
Hopefully the massive first print run will cover early demand, and if not, we’ll make more! :)
Congratulations on a great day! The combined announcement of Wyrmspan and the revised Tapestry civ cards made it almost as exciting for me as it was for you 😀 (although I’m going to hold off on the civ pack until I order Wyrmspan on Jan. 31).
I have encountered some of those “reskin/cash grab” comments on Facebook and was equally surprised and annoyed by them. I explained in my comments that this was a similar but different game from Wingspan, and provided a link to the 16 differences list on your website. It is clear to me that these comments showed a complete lack of knowledge about not just Wyrmspan, but also of your ethos as a publisher and designer.
Thank you for your consistent dedication to the gaming hobby and your Stonemaier supporters. Over the coming weeks while I anxiously await placing my order, I’m looking forward to more Wyrmspan reveals—especially a look at the Walter and Biddy inspired dragon (is it two-headed? 🙂) and the wooden tokens in the upgrade pack. 🐲🐉
Thanks Richard. I share that sentiment, and I’m excited to share the Biddy and Walter Easter egg (I think I have it planned to show tomorrow). :)
Your take on this process and life in general is refreshing and amazing.
I confess I have been looking at almost all the comments, both on BGG and Facebook.
I think the majority of the negative comments are coming from the fact that, in general, those commenting on that manner have not taken the time to read or learn about this game. They are instantly just assuming it’s Wingspan only with dragons.
I can only imagine it is tough to balance seeing all the excitement from many and the opposing comments from others. In the end you and Connie and Elizabeth and others know the work that was put forward and the product you have. Focus on that.
Definitely, I agree, Keith. With those comments, I have to balance a desire to share the proper information with the peace of mind that the information is easily available for anyone who actually wants it. :)
When I worked for a big sports site, I knew I had had a good day when fans of all teams had taken a dig at me: that meant the articles we created hit a certain nerve. And to be clear: I worked for a well respected paper, not a sensationalist one. What I want to say: this also means you have created an audience that is passionate about what you create.
That’s true! It’s always interesting to see how passion manifests differently in different people. :)
I’m super excited for this! I have room in my life and my shelfs for both birds and dragons! Hopefully all the happy enthusiastic comments drown out the negative!!!!!!!!!!
“I have room in my life and my shelfs for both birds and dragons!” Big yes to this, Kim! :)
“I’ve found it freeing to not feel compelled to speak back to certain unproductive comments, especially for a game as visible as this.” That is a terrific position to take. Haters gonna hate; don’t waste time on toxic people.
I’m absolutely stoked and excited !!
Wingspan has too much RNG with little to no mitigation of it, so I’m hesitant to buy Wyrmspan if it falls in line with that. I like the art, always have, but the design of Wingspan just doesn’t fit well with me, so I’m unsure about this one. I’m eager for all things Stonemaier and hope to see some new IP soon! Good luck with Wyrmspan (though it sounds like you won’t even need it :) )!
Justin, I am not sure what RNG stands for but based on the context I think you mean luck. If you are referring to the luck of the dice rolls, Wyrmspan does not have any dice. If you are referring to luck from card draws watching a game play video may answer your question.
It means random number generator and normally refers to any random/luck element of a game.
:)
I hate luck in games especially when it follows a decision. I find in Wingspan it’s not really luck as much as you need to okay the cards right.
I think Wyrmspan will have even less RNG
Anytime you have to draw cards or roll dice, it’s RNG (randomness / luck). The only semblance of mitigation of that luck in Wingspan is that you have three cards to choose from (if I recall correctly) instead of just drawing one (which is also an option). The game needs to allow us to mildly rearrange cards on the mat, once set…that’s the only mitigation I can see (or trash cards and get new ones).
Because of that design, which I’m sure was very intentional, and while I love the aesthetic of Wingspan, I simply do not like that kind of gameplay. Basically if you don’t pick correctly and set correctly early on, you’re typically screwed, especially in lower player count games.
RNG is randomness as a mechanic. I like games with very little randomness (limited dice rolling, limited card drawing), like Scythe. If a game is going to be highly based on randomness, then it should have mitigation to compensate. Wingspan has very little randomness mitigation.
If Wyrmspan has much less RNG, then that’s good.
Games with completely random card draw have high RNG, but that isn’t the case with Wingspan (or Wyrmspan)–you have the choice to draw from face-up cards (and invest in playing those cards) or the top of the deck.
It broke my heart to see the hate. I don’t pretend to know how much goes into these games but Ive seen enough of SM to know how caring and kind the company is and how a reskin is def not at play here.
I command you too see past all this, you’re definitely better than me. I’m just a fan and I had to walk away from a few groups on facebook yesterday because I was getting angry and I didn’t want to be mean.
I’m incredibly excited for this game, it’s beautiful and it’s designed by someone I admire a lot (apiary was amazing)
So to the team, congrats, no doubt this game is gonna be a HUGE success
I appreciate your empathy, Valerie. A lot of time, effort, resources, and love from a number of people goes into all of our products. I’ve built up a fairly thick skin for myself, but it’s tough for me to read comments that reflect poorly on the other people who poured themselves into this game.
Showing your compassion once again :)
I can only imagine it’s similar to having kids. I can take a lot of criticism but the minute it’s directed at my kids, mama bear comes out lol
Can’t wait to play the game in February and extra excited for everything else SM has in store for 2024!
Hi will champions get a pre-pre order window?
SMG may have a better answer, but what I have seen in the past I believe is the pre orders will open at the same time to everyone, bit Champions will get priority shipping and a further discount.
Our webstore is open to everyone, so everyone will have access to order Wyrmspan on January 31. Champions get a 20% discount, and their orders will ship first in February.
As soon as I saw it I knew I would buy it. I have a lot of faith in your company and the thought that it was anything other than another game that someone poured their heart into never crossed my mind. I can’t wait to play it.
Congratulations on your announcement! And also thank you for your thoughts behind it. I always love hearing about the thought processes and decisions from the side of board game designers and producers. It’s also great to see another game designed and illustrated by a team of women. I feel while the number of female board gamer is at a decent level (and has been for a while now in my circles at least), female designers are still few and far between.
But I don’t understand the need of people to be nasty on the internet (or in person for that matter). There is just no point to it. And it’s good to hear that you don’t always have to address their need for attention. Companies need to make money by selling products. Even if this game was a reskin of Wingspan (which it clearly isn’t, which anyone who watches the trailer can see), if there was a market and people would be keen to buy it, there would be nothing wrong with that.
I’m currently in the saturated/reduction phase of board game collecting. And I have heavily invested in Wingspan and will buy all the future expansions which at first made me more reluctant to buy this. I kind of try my best not to buy any more games (except a few auto-buys like Wingspan expansions or new entries/expansions in a certain board game series of a certain Kiwi designer duo), but I might still make an exception and might pick this up. Exactly because it’s different to wingspan. I love dragons and I like the tableau building aspect of Wingspan, it’s in the top three of my most played games and I play it both on computer and physically. And on top of this there is now the exploration aspect and other small differences. And the art work is reminiscent of wingspan in tone of colors, but different enough to be distinct.
Thanks for your thoughts on this, Roger! I totally understand the saturation stage, and hopefully the reviews that will start to release on January 22 will help you decide if Wyrmspan is a good fit for your collection. :)
I love Wingspan and this new game looks great as well! Love the theme and yes, it is similar to Wingspan but definately not a reskin!! So excited!!!!
I’m so excited for this game! I know the design is different than Wingspan, and I know both games have their place. I just love dragons so naturally, I’m super pumped! I agree with you and admire you for not bothering with the nonsense. Thank you for making this game!!
Awesome announcement Jamey! Just like anything else these days, the Internet will try to steal your joy but don’t let it. Just keep being awesome.
Hey Jamey,
was including the actual name Wyrmspan in the Champions email a day early an oversight, or intentional?
That was a copy/paste error on my part that neither I nor Joe caught–the intention was only to show the card backs, not give away the name a day before the announcement. :)
I would argue those monthly updates are some of the most thorough fan reviewed documents on this continent.
It’s funny that I first saw the announcement from Feuerland Spiele(German version). Looking forward for it.
From my very limited and busy with life perspective it went really well. By 7:45am (pacific time) I had the civs ordered, watched the trailer and appreciated your snapshot six step intro. I’m glad no one with any real credit for the game gave any of the negative or pointless comments any traction. You’ll never win that battle. Nicely done and looking forward to this game on my table. And the metal coins :D
It was fantastic!! Unexpected / complete surprise which I absolutely loved.
The only information I had a tougher time finding was about the optional upgrades like coins, tokens and mats. I remembered you mentioned them in the video but didn’t see them anywhere else.
Congratulations 🥳 It was like a wedding – only the people getting married noticed any issues if there was any – it looked great to me as an outsider attending 😉
Thanks Jeff! That information is right below the components list on this page (if I can put it someplace easier to find, let me know!). :)
https://stonemaiergames.com/games/wyrmspan/
A lot of the confusion originates from the name, Wyrmspan – directly referring to Wingspan. Hence, it’s natural for people to think of it as a reskin of the original.
I guess we’ll have to wait a few short months to see how much of Wyrmspan is different from his older brother.
Best of luck to you Jamey!
I never picked up a copy of Wingspan because seemingly 80% of the people I game with own a copy, so I just didn’t need one of my own. This seems close enough that I’ll still enjoy in, but different enough that I’m doubling up on games I already have access to. I love the theme and that it’s gonna be a little crunchier.
Can’t wait, just hoping the tapestry updated civ cards hold out till the launch…
We’re definitely on track for that–we have plenty to last a few months.
My boyfriend emitted a high-pitched squeal when he saw the box! We were going to get it no matter if it was a reskin or a new game, but I’m happy it’s something new! Congratulations on a big announcement!
I love it! :)
Me too. I’ve been waiting since day 1. If a dragon game never came, so be it…but the theme is perfect. That it’s a wholly standalone game with some of the same mechanics is all the more exciting.
I’m part of several gaming groups – I can tell you that overall reaction really positive. Some like “dragons” more than “birds”. Some want to see wingspan but slightly different. Some just like quality of Stonemaier games. I say keep up good work, can’t wait to order and get it to the table!
I appreciate you sharing that, Erwin. :)
I think the name is clever, though clearly you’ll have people thinking it’s a reskin just because the name is so similar to Wingspan
Personally I’m intrigued, and though I’ve slowed way down on buying board games, I plan to buy this and the extras. Wingspan is one of my absolute favorite games, and this has enough similarities and differences to make me think it’ll be another favorite of mine
Wow, 100,000 copies for the first print run! I can’t wait for the inevitable blog post that will go over the math and the emotions that went with that decision! Congrats are in order all around!
It’s definitely a big print run! I don’t have any particular insights to add about that calculation; it’s just a forecasting decision informed by distributors and what we already know about Wingspan.
I’m always excited when Stonemaier announce a new game. Don’t understand the need for haters for anything, and especially when people go out of their way to make great quality games with excellent values and processes. Appreciate the honest, positive and encouraging character you have and all that you do to contribute to the world of tabletop gaming. Be encouraged, you’re doing an amazing job. Thank you
Thanks Tim! I completely relate to what you’re saying: There are certainly products in this world that I’m not excited about, but I don’t go tell their creator, as I’d rather focus on the things I love (and even if I don’t love something I consume, I understand that someone–often many people–worked hard to create it).
Thanks Jamey
Your games make my world and many others a better place. Decency and passion show through. Keep being kind.
Thanks for saying that, Chris. I’m not always kind, but I try, and when I catch myself not being patient or kind, that’s a good sign that I need to step away from the computer for a few minutes. :)
I admit, I raised my eyebrows when I heard about Wyrmspan but in the end of the day of this brings people joy, that is awesome and that’s what matters in the end of the day. Now that I read everything there’s is out there to know at this point, my only wish would be for it to have a different name that differentiates it more from Wingspan. Especially since it seems that it has quite distinctive mechanisms and personality.
Well said: Our goal is to bring joy to people, and hopefully we’ve accomplished that with Wyrmspan. I hear what you’re saying about the name, and a lot of thought went into it. We wanted to make it clear that this game is connected to Wingspan while being a different game.